The 6-8 hour mandatory tutorial

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

With a quick Google check, the current A10 “speedrun” sits at around 2 hours, so no, 3-4 hours for a fresh start or 2-3 hours for an alt isn’t even close to speedrun territory. Let’s not pretend that achievable times are some exclusive achievement for speedrunners just because your own time is stuck at a much higher mark. No shame if you need 12 hours, but let’s not act like your performance reflects every other player

The FASTEST campaign ever, from the best speedrunner full team ever made, is 55 minutes. With full twinked gear and a full team. There is a full video of it, and its absolutely insane. No normal team of players are pulling that off, not even them again.....and CERTAINLY not a solo player, twinked out or not.

There isn't a league start alive that is finishing the campaign in under 3 hours. 3 hours is pretty much the record for solo speedrunning the campaign, but the vast majority (of speed runners, NOT normal players) take 3.5 - 4 hours. The best of the absolute best, the ones who have specifically practiced speedrunning hundreds or thousands of times, hover around 2 hours. Maybe 10 players total in the entire game are capable of that.

Your claims and the times you state are........not real. Or are you claiming to be secretly the fastest speedrunner that has ever existed in PoE? And you represent the "average"?

I use to easily level 4 or 5 characters a league

The past few years it is 1 or 2 at most, some leagues being only 1 and if my chosen build didn't work out, I just left the league earlier.

The best incentive to get me to level a Second Character is if the Challenge Rewards are something I really want and or there is a build that interests me.

I really thought after the Delve leveling event, that GGG might have considered allowing Delve leveling on a second character.

If we could level 2nd+ characters in Delve and or Heist, that would be fantastic change for the game.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

The FASTEST campaign ever, from the best speedrunner full team ever made, is 55 minutes. With full twinked gear and a full team. There is a full video of it, and its absolutely insane. No normal team of players are pulling that off, not even them again.....and CERTAINLY not a solo player, twinked out or not.

Appreciate you backing up the point while trying to dismiss it. A 55-minute alt run takes perfect execution, full party coordination, giga-maxed gear, the whole nine yards. Compare that to a solo 2–3h alt rush where you’re just playing efficiently, maybe have a friend toss you a few waypoints, and you actually know how to route the campaign — no speedrun strats, no meta cheese, no full group carry or gear worth mirrors. That’s a massive difference.
Same with fresh starts: 3–4h is still miles off from the ~2h runs top players pull off with flawless routing and perfect pacing.

So yeah, these aren’t some record tier achievements, they’re just the result of not wasting time and knowing the campaign layouts after playing it for the hundredth time. But I get it, for someone still stuck in the 10–12h range, even basic efficiency must look like wizardry. At some point, it’s not the campaign that’s slow, it’s just people mistaking experience and common sense for speedrunning. Meanwhile, most just cruise through, tackle endgame as soon as they can, and farm currency to either min-max their league starter or move on to the alt once they have the gear they want. Lol.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Your claims and the times you state are........not real. Or are you claiming to be secretly the fastest speedrunner that has ever existed in PoE? And you represent the "average"?

Oh, if I were some secret speedrunner pulling times close to world record tier, damn, the leaderboard would be on fire right now. But honestly, if I really nailed those record times, so would a whole bunch of other players who breeze through the campaign way faster than me without even trying to speedrun.

Appreciate you thinking and admiring that I’m some speedrunner though, considering my times are pretty slow compared to actual world record pace. I’m sure with a bit more training you’ll get there too! Each league and campaign run should only make you better at it, it’s hard not to improve after running the same thing a dozen times. Would be pretty sad if you didn’t see any real progress after the first couple runs, right?

3h being 'miles off' from 2h best speedrun and concluding its an achievable time for a non-speedrunner is hilarious to read XD

Honestly, that 6–8 hour "tutorial" phase almost made me quit the game the first time 😅 it’s not even bad, just... a bit much when you’re new and have no clue what’s actually important or what you can ignore.

I ended up browsing poehub halfway through just trying to figure out if I was even speccing my character right or totally ruining it already lol. Still don’t know if I fully understand everything but hey, I made it past Act 1 😅

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Marybary#8275 wrote:

Honestly, that 6–8 hour "tutorial" phase almost made me quit the game the first time 😅 it’s not even bad, just... a bit much when you’re new and have no clue what’s actually important or what you can ignore.

I ended up browsing poehub halfway through just trying to figure out if I was even speccing my character right or totally ruining it already lol. Still don’t know if I fully understand everything but hey, I made it past Act 1 😅

Don't worry about it. Don#t let anyone tell you how long it takes to do something. Seeing everythign for the first time or coming back to the game after a while is a cool experience but overwhelming. There is nothign worng with a 1 week campaign, lol. maybe watch some Poe University afterwards, hehe.

I think it took me around a week with several multiple hours sittings to go through the campaign in quasi SSF (not doing any trades).

But i did all the side quests and equipment/gem shifting/upgrades and a lot of basic crafing in between as i didn't have a clear build in mind (nor any currency/trade backing).

Still, 3 hours, for ALL 10 acts, with all the fetch quests in between? How? Wouldn't that mean you'd basically have to skip any optional side quest, including those rewarding skill points? And run past basically any mob that's not directly physically blocking your way? I understand that running the campaign with subsequent characters and pre-existing wealth can go much faster. But a league starter?

I personally like the story-based campaign better than the endless repetitive mapping where there's no real streamlined story anymore. That's what's starting to bore me quickly once it get's harder and harder and more tedious and grindy to proceed and upgrade any further (already thinking about dropping the game again). Even more so when GGG feels like they have to delete all progress and shift around maps with every new league, even for characters in the permanent standard league. It's pretty frustrating being only halfways through as a gamer with little time, then have the rug being pulled away from under my feet. Which is why i rarely join league starts. I don't enjoy being forced to start over all the time.

The only thing i don't like about the campaign is the lack of gem availability (when starting fresh). It's kinda unfun to have to 'unlock' the gems needed for a build. Level requirements are one thing. But not being able to actually reliably obtain (drops excluded because based on luck) the gem because it is locked behind a certain quest and class, in a game that shares a large passive skill tree for all classes?

I'd love it if GGG actually went and transformed a part of the "previous" atlas expansions to just be additional acts instead of replacing them with new "expansions" (which don't really expand anything because the previous expansion's storylines just mostly vanish into the space of meta-knownledge). Zana, the conflict between Elder and Shaper, the conquerors and more. All of that would make for cool story enhancements.

If that is too much for races and mappers, why not bind story progression to the account/league instead of individual characters (excluding skill/respec point rewards).
It could also be possible to open up mapping before the end of the full campaign.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

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Strickl3r#3809 wrote:

GGG already said that 10-12 hours is the average for veteran players it's no secret they have the data. So you live in some kind of bubble.

If 12 hours is considered the "average" time to complete the campaign, how come a large chunk of players are already past level 80 on day one? Realistically, that level of progress should take even experienced players more than 24 hours, based on that 12-hour campaign benchmark.

It's also worth noting that not every account is tracked on PoE Ninja, yet even with the limited data, we can already see tens of thousands of characters well into the endgame.

i hear what ur saying, a vet can speed run an alt to some extent, it should be vastly faster than a day 1 start.

also tho, the game has millions of players log on every league. 10,000s of players in a game with millions of players is 1% of the player base. that large chunk of players is probably the top 3% of players? lqarge chunk yes, but also small minority depending how you look at it.








as for the op, i have ADHD, theres been entire years where i havent played this game because despite wanting to the thought of playing that campaign again is absolutely nauseating. i hate it, im typing her in a friendly vibe and im smiling but to convey how playing that campaign makes me feel at this point i feel like i need to use excessively harsh swearing, i fucking loath playing that campaign, and i already feel that way about the poe2 campaign as well.

i cannot stand it.


i thought first time i played the poe2 campaign oh, the devs are right, we just needed a better campaign this is so much fun, i love it... nope, no, i have ADHD, it was new and exciting and then by the 3rd time i tried to play it i literally gave up, never got the char to maps, just stopped playing the game.


only ever got 2 characters to maps in poe2, seems like loads of builds etc to try and have fun, yep, ok. not gonna happen, i am allergic to playing that campaign again. its torture.

20k hours in poe1 btw, thats my tolerance for repeating stuff. but theres something about repeating a structured story vs repeating grind content designed to be repeated. i just cant, its awful, its so awful.





but, i get it. i get the idea that this is a game and part of a character/builds journey and earning its place in endgame is being able to move through the challenges of the campaign etc. i get it and it doesnt have to be changed just to suit me personally and the maybe weird way my brain works.

but my opinion is still as valid as any other individuals and i absolutely hate the campaigns in both these games, and im not alone in that. its already making me hate poe2, i probably wont even play the next league cause i just cant with levelling in that game already. took me many years to hate poe1s campaign this much, took me a 3rd attempt to hate poe2s and it confirms what i believed which is the better you make a campaign the worse it is to repeat it.




i would be against starting at a later level. i think you have to kill something like tutorial maven in endgame and that unlocks the ability to have some map/zone grind type content to just xp through from level 1. make it harder than the campaign, put obligatory bosses in there, make it tke the same time, whatever. i dont care, just dont make me play a set story with stupid little story missions and awful fetch quests and all the absolute trash they put in campaigns over and over and over and over and over... thats my personal preference.

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

3h being 'miles off' from 2h best speedrun and concluding its an achievable time for a non-speedrunner is hilarious to read XD

I don't think he's understanding what he's claiming....it's like claiming that since a grandmaster chess player can think 1000 moves ahead, the average player should have no problem seeing 500 moves ahead.

He also mentioned players level 80+ on day 1: the time it takes to go from level 67/68 to level 85 or even 90 is a tiny tiny fraction of the time it takes to get through the campaign. So players that finish the campaign in 5 hours on day 1 can likely be level 80 in less than another hour.

This sub-3 hour "normal" league start playthrough (even really....4 hour or 5 hour) is a total fantasy. Not to mention he already claimed "sub-1hr isn't out of the question" when that is the WORLD RECORD by a team of the best speedrunners in the game. Clearly there is a disconnect on the understanding of "time" here.


It's not even all that hard to research, either. There are tons of videos from the best and most well-known players throughout PoE's history on optimizing the league start and speed running. Not a single one claims sub-3hour league start, even 100% optimized with logout macros and perfect management, planning, and execution. These speedrunners are the equivalent to mirror-tier crafters/sellers in their rarity.