Flipping vs. mapping

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holyblazeer#7712 wrote:

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staytuned2k#6008 wrote:

I just wish ssf to softcore wasn't possible. Then GGG could do separate item balancing for ssf.

But as it stands right now, I'd be a naked character if I just relied on my drop luck and good luck crafting anything useful without currency exchange

I don't know what you are playing, but I have my 4th character in SSF and 1-90 experience was great. It is the endgame that the upgrading is trash.

You trying to get higher tier orbs, omens. which is very very very scarce endgame, and then relay on .0005 chance to roll the actual stat you want. Trade for the time being is a first aid for that problem, but GGG didn't roll out half of the crafting mechanics, just yet.

Maybe not naked. I'd enter endgame with whatever dropped during campaign and then I'd most likely just get bored doing low tier maps. I just can't wrap my head around how one gets gear to do T4 content on ssf. I have literally never found anything on the ground that was an upgrade. Most of the time I already start with my purchases during campaign because the experience going through it without at least some gear is just not my cup of tea.

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AlexxSlayer#7048 wrote:

Hi guys,

just wanted to hear your opinion about the state of the game as I am apparently unable to find it fun anymore. The main issue for me is the economy, which seems to highly be in favor of hideout warriorism instead of actually playing the game.
Mapping seems to be extremely underwhelming and hits of dopamine are few and far apart and the way you make bank seems to be by flipping items on trade. Don´t know about you guys, but this day-trader mentality is exactly what I would like to get a break from while playing a game, I get more than enough of that interaction within the real world.
It only takes a few days in new economy before the prices are out of hand for casuals and after that its either endless grind of maps with mediocre gear or - you guessed it - trading. Just a brief look at the markets will tell you the main issue - List a decent item with reasonable price and it is taken fast and relisted with higher price. Hard to keep up with these - I would venture a guess - bots without a huge bankroll.
So my question is, why is mapping so unrewarding and tedious? Is that not after all the main activity in this game?

I believe that all these issues with flipping can be easily solved by making minor tweaks here and there with the game.

Example 1: Make sellers pay gold for listing an item.

Example 2: Make sellers pay 1 mtx point for listing an item.

Example 3: Everytime the seller wants to list an item, the seller has to complete a quest. What type of quest will be up to GGG's discretion. I would suggest the quest to be extremely difficult, complicated, time consuming, annoying and requires a lot thinking and analysis and decision making.

A good idea of such a quest would be alternate parallel universe of the trial of sekhemas. The seller has unlimited attempts to complete the quest in order to list the item. The quest instance level will automatically scale with the level of the player. No party is allowed for the quest. No items and no loot will drop during the quest. Killing monsters will not give xp during the quest. A flipper or bot will most probably not want to flip items if this type of quest is required to list an item.

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XxxPssySlayerxxX#5201 wrote:

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holyblazeer#7712 wrote:

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XxxPssySlayerxxX#5201 wrote:

The game is balanced around trading, the crafting currencies is abysmally low so you have to trade to craft what you want. If you don't like that then SSF is the only way or play other game.

Another ignorant comment from you. Show me actual evidence that the game is “balanced” around trading. The crafting currencies have the same drop rate in Trade. A counterpoint could be: the game is balanced around SSF due to scarcity. See how baseless that sounds?

Or perhaps you based your opinion on actual game mechanics. Because trade is enabled, it’s balanced around trade, right? Well, SSF is enabled too, so…???

Play any other ARPG game that doesn't require heavy trading to craft your dream gears then you understand why it is so, for example Last Epoch. Or a more simple explain, GGG revenue is heavily from players buying stash tabs for convenience and trading, ofcourse they will incentivize you to play around trading.

Lmao. So you don't have any evidence regarding PoE2 being balanced for trade, and now you know their revenue as well. GGG sells more than stash tabs. I would be safer to assume that they get most of the revenue from the Supporter packs.

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lupasvasile#5385 wrote:

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holyblazeer#7712 wrote:

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XxxPssySlayerxxX#5201 wrote:

The game is balanced around trading, the crafting currencies is abysmally low so you have to trade to craft what you want. If you don't like that then SSF is the only way or play other game.

Another ignorant comment from you. Show me actual evidence that the game is “balanced” around trading. The crafting currencies have the same drop rate in Trade. A counterpoint could be: the game is balanced around SSF due to scarcity. See how baseless that sounds?

Or perhaps you based your opinion on actual game mechanics. Because trade is enabled, it’s balanced around trade, right? Well, SSF is enabled too, so…???

This is from POE 1, but we can safely assume it's the same for POE 2 because GGG has not stated otherwise.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1823776

In the above link you will find this line:

We do not want new players to choose SSF unless they know what they're doing. Despite the addition of this mode, Path of Exile is still designed and intended to be multiplayer with partying and trading.

We are talking about PoE2.

As a new player to PoE2, I chose SSF for my four characters, leveled through the campaign, and reached tier 15 waystones before transitioning to trade after level 90.

The experience from 1–90 was great, and upgrading felt fine until the very high endgame. Unfortunately, greater orb scarcity combined with the low chance of rolling the correct stat doesn’t work well.

Loot scarcity and low upgrade chances have been there since level 1, but they aren’t as impactful compared to the high endgame.


PoE2 is excellent in SSF, but I hope future crafting mechanics will address the endgame problem.

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ac429#4687 wrote:

I feel like a lot of the issues around the economy can be avoided by just playing SSF. SSF can never compete against the performance of trade. That's the nature of a market. But, SSF can make you appreciate even the most mundane items. You can pay a div for a 500 dps bow and be miserable in trade, or you can craft a 300 dps bow in SSF and be really happy about it. I quit trade years ago, and I enjoyed PoE1 and 2 a lot more ever since.

EDIT: It does not bother me how others want to play the game. I want them to have fun. But if I'm not having fun in trade, then that's up to me if I want to play that league or not. That's no one else's fault.

Two problems there.

One: Multiplayer.

A person should not have to forfeit the ability to play multiplayer, and give up on playing with their friends, in order to access a league that doesn't have trade.
Group self found would be something to consider. Solo self found is not.

Two: Balance.

Playing SSF avoids none of the issues of trade. You are still fully subject to it.
Because the game is balanced around the economics and loadouts of traders who buy all their gear. SSF is just an "I want to be underpowered and never have the currency for crafting" button.

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The_Song#4903 wrote:

Two problems there.

One: Multiplayer.

A person should not have to forfeit the ability to play multiplayer, and give up on playing with their friends, in order to access a league that doesn't have trade.
Group self found would be something to consider. Solo self found is not.

Two: Balance.

Playing SSF avoids none of the issues of trade. You are still fully subject to it.
Because the game is balanced around the economics and loadouts of traders who buy all their gear. SSF is just an "I want to be underpowered and never have the currency for crafting" button.

Those are fair points.

For One, I don't see how trade and multiplayer can be split apart. Even if you remove the trade panel, a long time ago, we used to trade by just dropping the stuff on the ground. Maybe you're right, the answer could be group self found, and honestly, that exists already. But, it costs money, in the form of Private Leagues. I've done them before, and they are fun, kind of cozy, even. It's like you have a friend who plays a bow character, and you might find a great bow and give it to them. That feels great.

For Two, I think of it a bit differently. I don't think there's such thing as too powerful or too weak. Rather it's what expectations you have. GGG has always maintained that pinnacle bosses are aspirational, not expectations, so expecting to beat them would be our own fault. That being said, even if you do beat them, you can always say you're not strong enough, because you didn't beat them faster. Or, you beat them in less than a second, and now there's nothing left to do in the game. See? It's all personally set expectations. Instead, what I find fun about SSF is that you learn to appreciate what you do find or craft, even if it's much weaker than what you might get in trade. That becomes enjoyable. TLDR: It's a personal perspective issue, not a game balance issue. I beat difficulty 0 and 1 pinnacle bosses in SSF, and I'm happier than a lot of people who beat difficulty 4 bosses.

so you want mapping to give you everything?
that's just a bad take, the game has and always will have multiple facets for progression. it's up to the player how they should progress.

if you don't want to sit in town looking for flips (people actually do this?) or buying bases to craft on, you don't have to - just go map.

if you hate mapping/crafting/trading then why are you playing?

this post is confusing tbh

I don't think it's confusing. I think he just wants more emphasis on mapping than flipping.

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AlexxSlayer#7048 wrote:

Hi guys,

just wanted to hear your opinion about the state of the game as I am apparently unable to find it fun anymore. The main issue for me is the economy, which seems to highly be in favor of hideout warriorism instead of actually playing the game.
Mapping seems to be extremely underwhelming and hits of dopamine are few and far apart and the way you make bank seems to be by flipping items on trade. Don´t know about you guys, but this day-trader mentality is exactly what I would like to get a break from while playing a game, I get more than enough of that interaction within the real world.
It only takes a few days in new economy before the prices are out of hand for casuals and after that its either endless grind of maps with mediocre gear or - you guessed it - trading. Just a brief look at the markets will tell you the main issue - List a decent item with reasonable price and it is taken fast and relisted with higher price. Hard to keep up with these - I would venture a guess - bots without a huge bankroll.
So my question is, why is mapping so unrewarding and tedious? Is that not after all the main activity in this game?

Keeping up with bots without a big budget is the exciting thing, otherwise it would be boring.

flipping (players) should be banned as anti-playing action

Also, just a reminder that someone who leechs from a system and not work to help its improvement/growth is a parasite

Also, flipping is not trading.

Flipping is buying low and selling high, and that is just making hard for players to acess it.