The ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM nobodies talking about...

I fear that GGG doesn't know how to solve one of the biggest, if not thee biggest issue with their games. What do you think it is? I know what I think it is, that's what todays topic will be mostly about. before you click on the spoiler, truely think of what I'm about to say. what is PoE's biggest problem?



yup, that's what I think is the biggest problem, the source of why people come back and why people quit. GGG doesn't target this head on and try to fix it either. either because they dont know, don't know how to fix it, or dont agree or care.

I feel like many of us will not play the new league because of the league mechanic... It's mostly about the fresh start. being able to get ahead of the curve... being able to make strong builds for cheap. sure really strong unique builds will still be expensive, but have you ever tried to make a really strong min/max'd build mid or even late season? how about on standard league? you.... ever actually try to farm on standard league? why do you think many don't farm on standard league? I think, and I could be wrong, but I truly think it's because the economy is so fk'd up and it's just the graveyard of old memories.

If you did care about min/max'ing your character, you would want to keep playing it... you're having fun afterall right? there still gains to be made right? but all of a sudden, the league is over, all those hours and hours you've spent building that strong character, that you want to keep making stronger now comes to a crossroad. Do you play it on standard or start over? what do you think people will choose and why?

This is why my topic is trying to highlight the issues with inflations and the games economy. deep down I don't think many players give a rats ass about the actual league mechanic. It's moreso about the fresh start, being part of a wave of something happening... it's all about the economy, and the game being in a better state because inflation isn't in an awful state (yet) it will be though, trust me, every league has the same problem.

Is this why ARPG's have such an awful ebb and flow to them? I think so. There is a core issue that the go-to sollution for years has been to just wipe it all and start over with a new season. that to me is a bandaid to this genre that i want to rip off and fix the source of the problem. because to me, it's a problem.

I've had people tell me. "oh, because you want to just play the build you like and min/max it, why don't you play standard, they have standard you know..." and to me it's like look at standard economy. truly go try to find amazing items. A lot of them don't exist, and if they do, they'll cost way more then just making a league character, and sending them back to standard. And then I'd run into another problem. League items, you see.. when you guys are making these crazy new items. If im playing standard, knowing those items exist, It's like ok... I'd have to wait until those items come to standard.. but heres another catch, once they do... it's likely those items wont ever be obtainable again... AND you know the odds of getting the limited time items ( in very high/perfect condition ) is? it's very very very low, and very very very expensive.

Here another way of looking at this problem, yeah i label it a problem. league starts right, youll likely go make a new build and have some excitment. maybe a week in or less, youll start having ideas on another build. maybe you see flaws with your starter build, or you see someone else playing something that looks fun, so you give it a go. you start over with the new build... everythings fun, you hit like 70's or 80's and think ehh it's missing something... you want more mobility.. or a bossing build or something different... you're now on the 2nd week of launch and you're making your 3rd build.. this is the one right? surely... so you playing it, it's strong, but for some reason it's not as fun, but you now have learned enough and understand what your truly trying to make. so 2-3 weeks in you reroll your 4th character. This was me. I made 4 characters this league... and you know what happened during that time period? you guessed it, the economy got massively inflated. items costing 5 divines now cost 20 divines, divines that costed 70ex now cost 400+ex... so just 1 item, that cost 5div @70ex/div would cost a total of 350exalts... but now divs are 400+ and that item is 20div.. that's 8,000 exalts... from 350 to 8k+ the reason the + is there. is because by the time you run maps, and pickup 8k exalts, your item, just 1 item, will very likely cost more than 8k+ exalts.

I know I'm not the only person who just likes testing other builds, who has an idea for something and just wants to make it, and then makes it. but because of the inflation... because the whole game loop is ( invest your time into a build, then delete the build because the season is over ) is a GIANT red flag for the ARPG genre. I don't think it'll ever be address and fixed. It's totally fixable too. there just needs to be a way to convert items into X and have a sink for X item.

It does kinda suck too, when you quit the game, come back a year or two later, and its like, you can't play your build because you'll have to respec your whole passive tree just to play around a little. I know that won't ever be fixed either too.

I love farming items, getting stronger, clearing faster, the whole swords/magic/bows genres, isometric cameras etc... but investing hundreds of hours, just to have it rug pulled from under me and the only true option is to start over? really? that's the best these companies can do?

Why do you think leagues have hype? why do so many ppl come, and then so many people fall off? I think it's because of the economy. has nothing to do with what new content or the league has to offer. the bottom line in my eyes truly is the economy. If you wanted to play PoE and the league is 2 months deep, you think itll be a good time to make a build? hope your items are cheap, or you know how to craft the good stuff. cause if you're like a good chunk of people, and you buy your stuff. you're better off waiting until next league. kinda weird right?

knowing what I know now, and maybe other people feel this way as well... but It'd be nice to just have another league launch right now. just to be able to start over right now, knowing what i know, what build i'd play etc etc.. that way I wouldn't feel so far behind because of the economy... it'd be nice. annoying to just keep deleting time and have nothing to show for.. but its like.. its fresh in my mind now, and by the time next league rolls around, especially with new stuff... Ill end up forgetting/changing things... so hopefully 0.4 launch ill have a better idea of what I'll go, if I end up playing..

bleh... you made it to the end... grats i guess? maybe you feel the same fatigue as I do, but youll also just wait til next league..

'GG' I guess..

I wouldn't call it the biggest issue the "game" has. And I do think you severely overestimate how much a regular player actually engages with the market. In the end this is an ARPG and you can remove the trade entirely and it'll still be a completely functional game. In fact making a functional SSF with adapted drop rates and no option to swap to trade will fix so many problems people have, it's not even funny.

League wipe is resetting the inflation.
I am mostly hyped for combat balance changes and new abilities/stuff.

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It does kinda suck too, when you quit the game, come back a year or two later, and its like, you can't play your build because you'll have to respec your whole passive tree just to play around a little.

Brother, what?
After a year or two of break, I would need to learn the game again, so i'd most likely want to make a new character.

I don't see issues you perceive despite being a guy who makes new chars and tests various builds.

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shemlock123#4081 wrote:

nobodies talking about...

I talk.
Close Trade and forget about it.
Trade NEVER works in games for good.

They don't have an exalt sink. Nothing to use exalts on besides maps really.

I'm sorry you feel that way - BUT for 0.3 it was easier than ever to reroll - because 5 or 20 div doesen't make a difference if you learn how to use the biggest change 0.3 brought - the crafting changes.

if you know how to trade/craft it's loughably easy to make currency to support any new build you want to try.

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DarkDredd#2184 wrote:

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shemlock123#4081 wrote:

nobodies talking about...

I talk.
Close Trade and forget about it.
Trade NEVER works in games for good.

I disagree. Trade is good for people who don't have time to grind for items or learn crafting mechanics. It's also good for people who just want to have the "quick and dirty" fun. Going in, buy what is fun for you and see your character progressing.

The problem is: As long as there is no real reason to use exalted orbs outside of juicing maps, the economy will always have more exalted then actual needed. Other orbs however, like divines, are rare and are really important for crafting. So we have a sink for divines. And the problem with exalted now got bigger since we have greater and perfect ones as well, so no one wants to use the normal ones for crafting anymore.

Is the solution to reduce drops of exalted? No, I don't think so. Campaign players and those clearing T15 maps need them. But we need a sink for normal exalted.

And the solution for that is easy: Let us upgrade normal ones to greater and greater to perfect ones. 3 exalted = 1 greater, 3 greater = 1 perfect. Yes, this would reduce the worth of greater/perfect exalted, since 1 perfect exalted would be 9 exalted orbs. But this way, exalted would actually be used for more things then just juicing maps. And every currency used means one less currency on the market. This helps against inflation alot.

exalt sink would probably be good in the game, but it would need to be restricted to end game probably


maybe instead of spending gold to gamble at vendors, it's exalts for example.

inflation is inevitable either way though

/edit, if there was an exalt sink though, everything would flip to the next tier up (chaos orbs) which would become another "problem".

there is gonna be less exalt sink in 0.3.1 because of alch upgrading magic maps and ex is already 400-1d

they do need to add more, and hopefully in 0.3.1 we will see something for late game players to just sink a bunch into.

the biggest problem is just the thing no one really wants to talk about; RMT

there are just too many players in less wealthy countries that can sell a few div for a meaningful amount to established RMT sites instantly, if they crack down on it too hard, it would open a can of worms that no dev, publisher or PR team could swallow

it is just unfortunate but the economy is doomed to rapid inflation and the only realistic solution is total resets

All they need to do to fix inflation is have a NPC vendor with SET conversion prices. IF they alter the drop rates for a specific league then obviously they would adjust their set conversion rate. THIS WOULD FIX SO MUCH, but it would anger the people that play the game way to much lol.

The rich would get rich fast allowing them to experiment more with their wealth. top tier gear would gradually cap out on price or even get cheaper. The middle class/skilled players would eventually get to the top as top tier gear gets cheaper and cheaper as the league progresses. newbies wouldnt feel the insurmountable inflation and would actually keep playing and supporting the game. This change would also allow people to actually start playing MID SEASON, without everything costing 500 divines.

I think the overall operating cost would simply be that the people whom play the game waaay too much would simply quit the league sooner, besides that I think it would overall improve the game and the games appeal with minimum impact.