Constructive feedback : 3 main gripes with the current game

Best solution for

1) Remove trade completely and rebalance drops or add a unique vendor/trading system that's less tedius than the current 3-1.

Imo from now + trade should be the last thing devs should spend time on outside of mechanical issues that come up.

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Senju_Hyoketsu#6098 wrote:

Feels like you're trying to gaslight my experience as "personal" when I have more than 10k hours in this game since 2013, is a bit disingenuous don't you think.

not at all. I have 18000 hours since 2012. I regularly spout subjective things. What does that matter? Your hours of playtime and years of experience don't mean you have "objective" facts.....the content of your post is what shows whether what you are saying is "objective fact" or not. It's rather funny you would even say something like this, given how little sense it makes. But it does clarify WHY you think your main post is "objective fact" when....it isn't. To be honest, with that sort of experience backing it up.....I'm surprised you even wrote this post and the subsequent responses. Frankly, you should know better.

Your entire post is subjective because you did not take the time to do any sort of research. You jumped on your "gut feeling" and rode it all the way to this thread. You have absolutely no numbers other than things you pull out of thin air and....your own subjective experience as you described not two posts earlier.

Meanwhile I posted ACTUAL numerical data completely contradicting your claims. While its still not the whole picture, its a great deal closer to "factual information" than anything you have said.

Again, I refer you right to your disclaimer sentence about interconnected systems....which you ignore and CONTINUE to ignore.


It's interesting you accuse us/me of gaslighting when YOUR post is the very definition of gaslighting: awfully familiar to the misuse of the "objective fact" terms. You try to attribute a system you dislike to far more than what it actually does and then attempt to manipulate the public into your subjective feelings about faustus, reliquary keys, stacked decks, etc. when there is ZERO hard evidence or fact in anything you have written. Your "claim" that it is irrefutable fact is, quite literally, gaslighting.

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Senju_Hyoketsu#6098 wrote:

Let's just discuss this one point : when entering a map since the addition of Faustus, you get less dopamine hits, and less profit overall unless you have a clear cut strategy going.
And sure it's the same for everyone so in the grand scheme of things it's not like you are making less money, that's not the point I'm trying to make.

You are so confused.....how is this subjective? How is it NOT subjective?!

1) YOU get less dopamine hits, not everyone. Not a fact. A point I illustrate later in this post. Players value different things, and therefore get dopamine hits from different things. Also a HUGE leap to connect this to Faustus and apparently only faustus. And its a complete misrepresentation to the point of being just straight up.....wrong. You IGNORE every single item that has gone UP in value since the addition of Faustus. If its true that all the devalued items do what you describe....then surely all the UPvalued items do the opposite, no? Have you spent ANY time quantifying this to justify your "irrefutable facts"???
And.....this is NO DIFFERENT THAN IT EVER WAS BEFORE. Item values change league after league. Always. These values and which items are desired always change with the meta, the league, the endgame changes, etc. Always. Faustus didn't suddenly change this. You should ABSOLUTELY know this intrinsically with 10000 hours in the game, presumably playing trade for most of it.


2) YOU get less profit without some sort of strategy.....OBVIOUSLY! And what the heck does this have to do with faustus lol? This was true LONG before Faustus. It has quite literally been true for the entirety of your 10000 hours in the game. The "most profitable" strategies are ALWAYS changing league to league.

3) NO IT IS NOT the "same for everyone". Famous last words for someone claiming "irrefutable facts". You seem confused on what is "fact" and what is YOUR experience ONLY. What about the huge group of players that ONLY buy from Faustus and basically never sell? What about those not interested in profit at all, and only do what they want to do? What about those that only trade when they absolutely have to, or otherwise interact with Faustus very little? Which....is the majority by GGG's own words throughout the years on who actually trades "regularly". What about those that don't juice content and therefore see far less items overall in their regular gameplay?

Others may agree with your experience, but you are still ONLY describing your experience....NOT fact.

And this is only a tiny tiny tiny portion of everything you are willingly ignoring, or worse....purposely leaving out to *cough* gaslight anyone reading your thread.

Also....you aren't trying to make the point that you make less money? Did you forget that.....this is literally the ONLY point you tried to make in the OP?
1) unique items worth much less
2) nothing of value from maps
3) chase uniques lost value
4) value....value....value.



Hey....here's another example of DATA that refutes your claims:
This league, right now, Kingmaker (one of the most popular higher end uniques that ISN'T a chase unique) is being traded for an average of 7.3 divines. Earlier this league when more people were playing, it sold for 500-700 chaos, or about 4-5 divines.
The league BEFORE faustus existed even for just currency? would you look at that....same time frame, about 300-500 chaos average, or actually LESS valuable.
Looked at 6L Thousand Ribbons too....far more common of a unique: same deal. LESS valuable in 3.24 prior to the addition of anything Faustus.

Now how would we explain that? Surely Faustus should have obliterated the value of those unique items right? Because its irrefutable.

Or could it be the very thing YOU warned about in the OP: the interconnected systems that ALL play a role together, or play no measurable role at all beyond our own narrow and selective personal experience.

What are you talking about. Dude is writing pages long essays because he refuses to admit that the introduction of Faustus devalues the resell value of low/mid tier uniques (which is again, an OBJECTIVE fact).

Get professional help mate.

Out of curiosity, how did you determine that the Faustus exchange drove the unique item prices down?

Because I haven't done any research on it or anything, but just thinking about it for two seconds makes me want to say the Genesis Tree item printer is a much more logical explanation for this.

Stating something is objective fact and singling out one source that potentially drives prices is something else. The market is a little more complex than that, Senju.

Off the top of my head:
- Genesis tree printing cheap uniques like crazy as a byproduct of people seeking good Foulborns
- Meta shifts between leagues changes demand
- Accessibility

Many people would also choose to turn uniques into Dust, so anything below say 10-20k Dust would either be vendored or thrown into a public trade tab. This is especially true for low tier Breach uniques which have almost no Dust value.

I'd also be careful about telling people to get "professional help" unless someone asks if they should save money on getting wiring fixed in their house. Then, absolutely recommend a professional electrician. Otherwise, I recommend forum support

Fine...I'll keep it shorter since the reading is a barrier here. For the record, I wouldn't have had to write as much if you actually did the required proof yourself, or even considered a tiny portion of the things I illuminated. You ignored so much in order to make your point that it required a long post.

Claiming "irrefutable, objective fact" requires heavy lifting. The burden of proof is on YOU, not me. I provided numerical data that contradicts your argument. I even mentioned in my first post what others mentioned: that the tree and foulborn uniques THIS league are the true reason unique items of certain types have fallen in value. Reminiscent of the devaluing of currency during Heist league thanks to regal -> exalt conversion. Or countless other examples BEFORE faustus and reliquary keys and the tree.

Yet....even WITH the tree, the data doesn't agree with your statements.

These posts are met with personal attacks and complete denial and refusal to engage or rebut, rather than any substance. Not objective. Not factual. Not irrefutable.

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Senju_Hyoketsu#6098 wrote:

therefore I won’t deep dive into why system A leads to result B, relying on your common sense and expertise.

You should have, because its not just System A leading to System B. It's system ABCDEFGH+ leading to outcome 1.

Why ignore basic economics. The ease of accessibility and lesser friction provided by Faustus, means more items are listed on sale which in turn equals cheaper prices... So when a unique item wasn't worth much previously, it now is unable to retain any value over time, if at all to begin with (cause market flooded).

And yeah sure other factors (ABCDEFGH+) are at play, but to a waaaaay lesser extent than Faustus, which is the main contributor. If you can't even understand/see that to begin with, any discussion is pointless, because it's common sense, which is also backed by empiricism...

And I could spend 20 hours gathering written data, but it's not needed. You can just see it by playing. Less uniques highlighted by Neversink filter, less uniques worth anything when picking them up and price checking, PoENinja prices, etc.
You don't need a PhD to observe and conclude something as blatantly obvious and simple, that is also backed up by basic economics.

Go away

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Senju_Hyoketsu#6098 wrote:

And yeah sure other factors (ABCDEFGH+) are at play, but to a lesser extent than Faustus, which is the main contributor.

And I could spend 20 hours gathering written data, but it's not needed. You can just see it by playing.

How did you determine this? Because all you're offering right now is vibes-based reasoning and "Trust me, Bro."

I could just as easily say, my vibes-based reasoning says it's the Genesis Tree, source is Trust ME, Bro. Now what?

This is why you do, in fact, have to gather data and attempt to falsify your own claims.

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Senju_Hyoketsu#6098 wrote:

Why ignore basic economics. The ease of accessibility and lesser friction provided by Faustus, means more items are listed on sale which in turn equals cheaper prices... So when a unique item wasn't worth much previously, it now is unable to retain any value over time, if at all to begin with (cause market flooded).

Because this is WRONG. Faustus has balanced the supply AND the demand side of the equation. If anything, it is skewed towards higher DEMAND.

In fact....Faustus hardly changes the supply side at all. The SAME players that flooded markets with uniques in previous leagues....are the same players doing it via Faustus. The REAL change is that there is much higher demand because there is less friction for the BUYERS, meaning they will interact with trade far more often for smaller upgrades.

Buyers ALWAYS, always always, outweigh the sellers. By magnitudes.

Why ignore basic economics? Higher demand often yields HIGHER prices, not lower.



The items aren't retaining value as long because the game is spitting out uniques multiple times more frequently than it ever has before. This is SEPARATE from Faustus. And something you seem incredibly keen on just straight up ignoring.