I believe this is worth discussing now...

Before the noise arrives from the reveal next week it's good time for us the GGG supporters to discuss and share relevant info, opinions including feelings. There's been many arguments / debates by now why PoE2 or PoE1 is bad or either being better.

Since I haven't covered this topic in-detail may as well do it now. PoE2 thankfully wasn't a financial flop, but most here don't care about that as much as to have "fun" playing PoE2 during the periods when PoE1 isn't "fun" and I'm one of those players.

PoE2 early access launch I recall playing it for around two weeks and 0.2 was for around a week, while 0.3 and 0.4 pretty much I just installed the game. Anyways, here are some of the main reasons or issues I find "unfun" in PoE2 and later on I'll mention what instead they could've done, like simpler things where I could've had enough "fun" to play it for 3-4 weeks at least through the leagues cycle.


1) PoE2 feels being made for consoles first and this can be seen from how WASD end up being mandatory with its combat advantage, while also favors those console gamepads over keyboard, two flask slots down from five and now when I don't have to rely on strategically using utility flasks or movement skills there's less edge / advantage to separate when competing in an "online" ARPG that also introduced the same and outdated EXP ladder and introducing nothing else or better including in-game events design.

I strongly believe the poor choice of PoE2 design was "watering" it down, simplifying it for a broader audience except most from that audience wouldn't be playing these type of games with what else is available.

The combat design in my opinion is also a significant downgrade to the superior PoE1 combat that most have gotten accustomed and enjoyed through a decade. Yes, PoE1 can get way too zoomy with late character / build power, but how the foundation is designed, specifically its theme park content speed is a significant and necessary factors for players to experience and engage with most of its content.

Most including me don't play Ruthless PoE1 for good reasons and PoE2 reminds many of that with its forced "slow" experience. Personally, I've said this before if I could redesign quickly and cheaply ruthless it would have everything except when the character dies atlas progress including stash tab is gone with some additional to content difficulty similar to the extra map mods the Phrecia event had.

The PoE2 skill gem system, including crafting for me is a significant downgrade, because it removed decision making for progression. The sockets / fusings and links added overall more "fun" in obtaining extra crafting currency.

The endgame and atlas progression that PoE2 didn't deliver for over a year and then the watered down passive skill tree. PoE2 $30 early access key that included 300 points that could be also used on PoE1 was probably one of the best decision they made with PoE2, because that's one thing this company still has an edge and reputation, which is giving us so much for far less compared to everything else out there.


Now, the simpler and other designs they could've done with PoE2 to boost my own retention enough where I would be a continued "valued supporter"....


1) I don't find the PoE1 graphics bad in 2026 and so far how better the game looks from over a decade, well if they just released a much better optimized / polished engine PoE2 would've have no performance issues, especially at late game with juicing on a mid range PC, which most are still using, given the developing regions the game is available that the majority play from.

2) Players mainly come back to compete, either against others participating in competitive events / ladders or for the appeal that comes from a fresh / new economy, competing to farm / obtain loot / currency / items to complete the personal challenges and overall experience the new content "theme park" and overall progression through hopefully different builds.


How the game is designed (its foundation) depends on economy reset and consistent challenging content (theme park) that comes from being unknown to experience and overcome.

Most today aren't as forgiving and lenient toward products that don't meet their expectation or in other words, the industry has been saturated with poor quality products, so graphics are important just not like around 15-20 years ago, which is why the whole gaming industry has been struggling to retain the veteran market that grew through the decades.

Online PC gaming has been available for over two decades and this is after more than a decade of vast single player experience on consoles, which is why the lead developers position must match that experience at minimum to attract, but more importantly retain the veteran market share / audience, which GGG gained most of its support from and its a proof today just like in 2013-2014 that the industry is big enough for more than dozen of high quality, "live service" products to exist through decades.

Finally, Another thing that GGG is doing right, which most may have missed on when they look at their official website is HIRING, that's right, the company has been hiring for a while now and not just for specific roles, but for all, which also means Jonathan or Mark just like Chris may be still involved, but I'm sure would also happily step aside when someone else would eventually come along and proving to be a significant upgrade for the whole company and its future.

For most successful companies how they recruit and improve upon the available talent is far more important than stating / advertising they're hiring.

no

Is this another "ggg should pay me" thread?

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Kopogero#0635 wrote:

Most today aren't as forgiving and lenient toward products that don't meet their expectation or in other words, the industry has been saturated with poor quality products, so graphics are important just not like around 15-20 years ago, which is why the whole gaming industry has been struggling to retain the veteran market that grew through the decades.

Yes they are. They complain all day every day and all night every night, but they play and grind anyway. And they will buy the next Diablo 5 or Ubisoft game or Bethesda game even though it is bound to be a bad game with all kinds of generative ai in it... true story

Also, sucks to have a head full of ideas but all society wants is someone to fry burgers and serve various coffee abominations...kappa

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Kopogero#0635 wrote:

I believe this is worth discussing now...

Good to know. Your blog post doesn't really build up to a discussion on the matter, though.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

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Kopogero#0635 wrote:

I believe this is worth discussing now...

Good to know. Your blog post doesn't really build up to a discussion on the matter, though.

In other words you agree on most of what I discussed and you are welcome to add more with your own blog here.

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Kopogero#0635 wrote:

In other words you agree on most of what I discussed

I do, actually. I would also agree if you stated that copy paper is usually white or sea water being salt.

console isnt a good gaming platform.
designing a game for it is a slap in the face for everyone supporting and playing poe for over a decade.

poe2 simply feels bad to play and it wont fix it by removing dodge roll which simply makes it boring like watching apint dry and the latency hit along the way makes it horrible as a game.

anyhow, 3.28 is coming :)

I believe it would be worthwhile for most people to ban the term 'most' from their vocabulary. :p

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"Console" is becoming complicated to discuss between the release of the Steam Deck
(and soon, Steam Machine, which should have a decent PoE2 performance even past campaign),
and the generalisation of even PC players having controllers.

And speaking of gamepad interfaces, hack'n'slash games are a bit unique in that designing them for both mouse & keyboard and gamepad doesn't necessarily make them worse. (And if you think that PoE2 has been severely dumbed down because of that, just compare it with Diablo 4.)

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You say that the console audience wouldn't be playing PoE2... why ? Have you missed all the 'soulslike' discourse around PoE2 ?
(Or do you think that there's no place there for the kind of player that won't bother with the Atlas ?
Have you forgotten that PoE2 has couch co-op ?)

What I'm more surprised with, is how GGG seems to be so unsure of their skills (?), that they are planning to make PoE2 free after it hits 1.0. Yet the v0.1 Act 1 alone was worth those $30 !

@BlueTemplar85#0647, if you read above again I never said the console audience wouldn't be playing PoE2, because that makes no sense.

Appealing and tailoring the game with the console audience in mind is a smart choice except if there's noticeable drawbacks for the PC audience.

Yes, the new players from the console audience will flock toward the new shiny, hyped game, buying their packs, stash tabs and MTX, but at least speaking about myself with the current combat design from character to skill movement and stripped flask usage WASD with gamepad is the superior choice.

When there's a preference to use a gamepad over mouse it won't go well for both GGG and its PC supporters that are the reason PoE2 exist.