The desecrate trick in maps seem really inconsistent right now, also sometime the map only spawn cannibal and no fire-eater. I also try solar guard but I still prefer fire eater for proximity shield and vaal totem. Is there any new spectres I miss in 3.0 ?
spectre trick seems as consistent to me as before.
about getting fire-eaters: some people reported they do not always find cannibal fire-eaters in shore, but in the ~20 maps i used to get them i was able to desecrate them every single time. maybe i was just lucky with my shores, but maybe other people were just unlucky with their first few desecrates.
Wolf...would it be worth it to take those three nodes - forgot the name - that offer increased chance to block spells. Im on my phone in a train and connection is bad and slow or i would check. But i think its 11 + % spell block chance and if combined with bone offering that sounds pretty good or not.
Is it worth it to take that over the three increased skill effect duration nodes. Those are nice but in boss fights you cannot spam vaal discipline anyway. Often times you can only use it once in a while until boss spawns more monsters. So in boss fights like 1 sec more vaal discipline over consistent 11 % increased spell block chance...is that worth it? That spell block chance looks good or am i missing something.
The Mind Barrier cluster you mean grants a total of 7% chance to block spells, one of the nodes gives 40% increased energy shield from equipped shield (that grants us 14.8 base Energy shield, so about 45 in total).
The problem i have with (spell) block chance is that it is unreliable. especially when in such low amounts. we stack enough defenses to survive any single hit that is not 100% supposed to oneshot you (for example shaper slam). so to make these 7% spell block effective we would have to get hit by something that would oneshot us, but get lucky and block it. if i die to something and ask myself why i died i do not want the answer to be "your defense was rng based and you got unlucky this time". yes, the block chance might save you in a situation where you would die, but you could also have avoided that death by playing better. i just hate rng based defense, which is why you rarely see me playing evasion/dodge builds. if the nodes said "7% reduced damage taken from spells" i would definitly consider it, but since they don´t i avoid them.
the duration nodes increase my vaal discipline duration from 6.15 seconds to 7.5 seconds, which is a big deal in my opinio, i have 80%+ uptime on it while clearing maps and i can usually kill the boss within it´s duration, which is partly thanks to the duration cluster. it also makes offering skills last longer. (also curses and arctic armor ground effect last longer, but those buffs are pretty much irrelevant) most summoners have no problem in the damage department at all, so you focus we focus on efficient defense and quality of life. the duration cluster adds a lot of the latter and i would only consider dropping it for something that gives me reliable (so not block chance) and efficient (so no 6% increased ES nodes) defense.
a lot of people disagree with how i think about chance based defense, so do not take this is a fact, just my opinion. you can pick up the block nodes of course and they will have an okay effect on average, but they might fail in the moment you need them the most, which is a no-go for me personally.
I see your point. And I thought its 3 nodes and like 11 % + spell block. Now that you mention it I remember that the last node was something else and not spell block.
The only thing really dangerous is being unprotected vs stun for me right now as im still saving for the Chayula. The huge chaos resist on that amulet is quite awesome too. Its definitely worth it to invest 4 - exaults on that thing. Without that amulet its prolly really hard to do endgame bosses cause even the map bosses I do right now. T12 - T14 tend do stun very hard at times.
If I cannot be stunned and use vaal discipline theres prolly not much right now that could kill me except maybe some Guardian or Shaper one shot ability but I havent tried those bosses yet.
Almost 1,5 more seconds of vaal discipline is not bad at all.
Ill go for skill duration nodes then.
Theres one thing I dont quite understand when it comes to vaal discipline though. I understand how it works by observing that my shield immediately recharges at full recharge speed.
But I always thought that an energy shield still has a short delay before it recharges. With Vall discipline it recharges immediately. So basically the energy shield 'thinks' there hasnt been any damage at all but for some reason its empty and for that reason it just recharges right away. Is that correct?
I just wanne understand how it works.
Using this build it seems vaal discipline is one of the strongest vaal skills ever. It continiuously saves me. And like you said....you can actually run straight through an army of High Level Blue or Elite Monsters and you are basically safe from anything for the duration.
I think im in love with vaal discipline.
What I would really love is that you as a summoner have enough gem slots and a setup where you can equip both vaal haste and vaal discipline and use it as the map or circumstance demands or even at the same time.
having both charged. Thatd would be pretty awesome. But I wouldnt want to loose any other gem for that.
Yea, "Merveil blessed" also feel slow mostly because the projectile travels super slow, its a safer and slower option wich dont appeal to the "fastfastFAAAAAAAAST" mentallity these days...
Im using this build allmost perfectly exept for the gem setup and i have some questions:
- only reason not to use haste also on generosity is because of the run speed?
- why not move convocation with the increased duration group and desecrate to the other group? this way the heal from convocation lasts a bit longer (not a big deal but its an extra) and desecrate dont have the added mana cost even if 4l, unless i miss something...
- im using arc with CoH atm and works wonders, any good reason to switch to ball lightning? i feel that taking into account the zero travel time of arc counter the slow and hard to aim ball lightning but maybe im missing something else...
- i was thinking that i should try to get some good gloves with dex, ES and some resist and try to get a temp chain on hit corruption on it, its supposed to replace not one but 2 gems (temp chains+CoH) so we can use 2 slots for something else, is this a good idea or im missing something else here too?
- what about the same but with clarity 4 on belt? does it lower our mana (or ES) to much?
- how bad is NOT to use arctic armour? i feel like its not helping much to the build because i shouldnt be hit a lot if at all and the chill effect im pretty sure it dont work on bosses either
- Any reason not to use animate guardian instead of the golem? you can get 15% damage, 18% curse effect, 10% speed and some extra stuff or it is to weak even on life+fortify/empower?
- Also what about replacing one of the flasks for a quartz for strongboxes and/or any for a life one with life for minions (both mostly for high maping i guess)?
this got too long, so hiding it behind spoiler:
Spoiler
- other reason not to use haste on generosity is because we could not run our aura setup otherwhise. we have to place one of the 50% auras into our prism guardian, but there is no place for a generosity gem. if you put anger into prism guardian and supported haste with generosity, the anger aura would apply to you and make our Elemental Equiblibrium work against us, as our CoH skill no deal fire damage.
- if we put desecrate with the anger - generosity - arctic armour setup, we woul have to get 2Red, 2Green sockets somewhere on our gear, which would be more expensive and difficult than isolating a green socket from for example our gloves, so i decided to set them up that way. and the convocation heal is pretty much a nonfactor anyway - it says 116 per second, that is a joke considering out zombies have 15k+ life.
- ball lightning and arc both are viable choices, if you prefer arc, go with it! the reason i prefer ball lightning is that i have to cast it less often, because it covers a wider area of effect (but yes, it has travel time), it also has better range, which enables me to for example check the edges of the arena in shaper fight for blue orbs, while keeping my spectres at shaper or the monsters he spawns with ball lightning. you also need a high level arc to give it a good "Aoe", a high lvl arc however costs almost double the mana of a lvl 1 ball lughtning, what is a bit uncomfortable in my eyes. As i said, both are viable, but those are the reasons why i prefer ball lightning.
- by using temp chain corruption you would only save 1 gem slot, as you still need the curse on hit to proc the elemental weakness corruption, the corruption on the wand says "grants elemental weakness skill", you still have to use a curse on hit gem to proc that with ball lightning or arc. at the same time you would however loose the ability to swap curses however you like, so you first need to spend a lot of money (or get very lucky with vaal orb) to get very good gloves with that corruption, but now you have issues colouring/linking those gloves and all that for having one more gem slot, which´s colour you can not even change. you also loose the ability to switch curses as you like, for example i like to switch enfeeble for flammability for some fights like shaper or minotaur (once you got used to them and evade their hits), since that way i can kill minotaur before i need to get throuh a single fence and the enfeeble does not do that much for shaper anyways, since he is untargetable during a lot of the attacks and things like his slam are one-shots you have to dodge anyway. if i had infinite money and could just put together my perfect gear i maybe would go for those gloves, but that is nothing you can recommend in a guide to partly new people. "welcome to my guide, for this you need not one, but 2 very specific corruption on your items, so better bring a lvl 8 vorici and a lot of currency!". that´s very demoralizing for new players and what you get from that investment is not even that much, considering you also loose the quality from you second curse. all in all: good idea, but what you get out of it is not worth the investment, at least in my opinion!
- clarity level 4 would reserve 76 mana, we do not even have that much. if we had 2 spare sockets i´d place clarity with blood magic in there, but the corruption on belt is not an option for this - and by having a corrupted implicit on your belt you would loose about 240ES, which wouldn´t even be worth it.
- not using arctic armour would be a mistake in my opinion, physical mitigation is very hard to come by especially with an ES based character, i am very happy we can utilize things like flesh binder ascendancy, chaos golem, basalt flask and arctic armour. dropping arctic armour will not instanly let you die to all physical (or fire) damage, it is afterall just 1 of the many layers of defense we have. when doing this build i tried not to make just an other "get 9k ES + Vaal pact"-build, i put layer upon layer of defense upon each other, removing some of those better be very well justified, and i do not really see a reason to drop arctic armour.
- i tried using animate guardian in the past few leagues and i will probably try it again, but my conclusion from past leagues is he is not worth the time you put into him. he will not die that fast, but there are a few things that can kill him - for example the bleed pillars in uber lab/trials or him derping out of the shield during shaper fight or the pheonix explosion. he adds some nice things, but whenever he dies you will have to buy a new set of items for him, which is not that big of a deal currencywhise (like 5 alchs afterall), but try trading for a 1 alchemy item. and then try trading for five 1 alchemy items. your guardian died? better prepare for 30 minutes of annoying afk/dnd replies, if a reply comes back at all. do not ask me why people even list things for 1 alch, if they are not willing to trade it when they actually get messaged about it, that is a different story.
(i also do not like having to watch that life bar of him, i prefer positioning myself in the fights)
- once you got the flask setup i recommend running and got a vaal discipline you will not have any problems with any strongbox in any map. pop vaal discipline + the flasks and ninja open any strongbox you want. "Detonate dead"? - pfff, 90% fire res. "Ice nova"? - 90% Cold res, easy. "Curse with x curse when opened"? - curse immune. bunch of porcupines spawn and get deleted instantly? 90% all res, ~ 45% phys mitgation (one of the situations which i like arctic armour for) and a bunch of minions who take most of the projectiles. life flasks for minions should not be necessary, your spectres should never die anyway and resummoning a few zombies every once in a while is worth the additional utillity flask if you ask me. if you really wanted to use that animated guardian you could probably go for one of them however, it might save him in some situations.
a lot of things you mentioned (if not all) are definitely viable and mostly come down to personal preferance, so i am not saying these are bad ideas, i am just trying to explain why i decided to take an other route.
TYVVVVVM for the long answer and now i can see where to fit arctic armour, gonna try it during the week, 2 more questions, ive been doing high maps and i got a roadblock when doing the dark forest map, the trash was stupid easy but the boss killed me 3 times (and took ages to die in comparison to other bosses), now i know i have to clean the bleed and hide from the wolves but he also did some skill that allmost instantly killed me, kind of a teleport, any idea what it can be and how to avoid it (if phys then AA helps here, i know)? also tried normal atziri just to taste some endgame and the other bosses melted but atziri was problematic, what killed me was the giant ground effect, i think its fire based but not sure, you think that flasking exactly there would have saved me?
And again thank you very much for all the help.
I see your point. And I thought its 3 nodes and like 11 % + spell block. Now that you mention it I remember that the last node was something else and not spell block.
The only thing really dangerous is being unprotected vs stun for me right now as im still saving for the Chayula. The huge chaos resist on that amulet is quite awesome too. Its definitely worth it to invest 4 - exaults on that thing. Without that amulet its prolly really hard to do endgame bosses cause even the map bosses I do right now. T12 - T14 tend do stun very hard at times.
If I cannot be stunned and use vaal discipline theres prolly not much right now that could kill me except maybe some Guardian or Shaper one shot ability but I havent tried those bosses yet.
Almost 1,5 more seconds of vaal discipline is not bad at all.
Ill go for skill duration nodes then.
Theres one thing I dont quite understand when it comes to vaal discipline though. I understand how it works by observing that my shield immediately recharges at full recharge speed.
But I always thought that an energy shield still has a short delay before it recharges. With Vall discipline it recharges immediately. So basically the energy shield 'thinks' there hasnt been any damage at all but for some reason its empty and for that reason it just recharges right away. Is that correct?
I just wanne understand how it works.
Using this build it seems vaal discipline is one of the strongest vaal skills ever. It continiuously saves me. And like you said....you can actually run straight through an army of High Level Blue or Elite Monsters and you are basically safe from anything for the duration.
I think im in love with vaal discipline.
What I would really love is that you as a summoner have enough gem slots and a setup where you can equip both vaal haste and vaal discipline and use it as the map or circumstance demands or even at the same time.
having both charged. Thatd would be pretty awesome. But I wouldnt want to loose any other gem for that.
because of stun being very nasty i recommend going Eye of Chayula while you do not have a presence yet. Presence of Chayula > Eye of Chayula > anything else. when i initially planned the build i did not even know presence of chayula would exist in the near future, yet i planned on using eye of chayula. stuns get especially nasty when you get stunned while casting vaal discipline, your cast will be interrupted, but the souls are still lost. this can kill you if it happens in the wrong moment.
and i agree, vaal discipline is very strong. now imagine it also granted you like 4k flat energy shield, which it did untill it got nerfed in 2.6. :P
the problem with using 2 vaal skills is that each soul can only be consumed once, so they will charge only half as fast, since they have to share the souls.
TYVVVVVM for the long answer and now i can see where to fit arctic armour, gonna try it during the week, 2 more questions, ive been doing high maps and i got a roadblock when doing the dark forest map, the trash was stupid easy but the boss killed me 3 times (and took ages to die in comparison to other bosses), now i know i have to clean the bleed and hide from the wolves but he also did some skill that allmost instantly killed me, kind of a teleport, any idea what it can be and how to avoid it (if phys then AA helps here, i know)? also tried normal atziri just to taste some endgame and the other bosses melted but atziri was problematic, what killed me was the giant ground effect, i think its fire based but not sure, you think that flasking exactly there would have saved me?
And again thank you very much for all the help.
The boss in that map is based on rigwald, the final boss in the talisman league (that league was over a year ago). he can be very tricky, there are a few things you have to watch out for: he does a barrage attack, that gets blocked by terrain, just stand behind a tree or smth else while he does that, the attack will not harm your minions, so do not worry about them. during the attack he has a 90% damage reduction buff, so attacking him during that time is not really worth it, even if you can. the other thing he often does is transforming into a wolf, while in this form he will be completely immune to damage and will apply very strong bleeds. just run away from him in that stage and if he hits you press anti-bleed. should you run out of anti-bleed, do not hesitate to portal out and back in to refill your flasks. he also sometimes teleports around, but afaik that teleport does not do damage. there are various ground effects and other damage dealing objects spread accross the arena, maybe one of those killed you there? some deal heavy chaos damage.
atziri uses a variety of different skills, i´ll give you a short breakdown:
- Storm call (2 different, one looks red, one is yellow): she will mark a lot of different locations on the ground, after a delay a storm call will strike down at the location, the red one can be survived with decent gear or a topaz flask up, the yellow one is a one shot.
- flame blast: she channels a flame blast on your current location. should be dodged, but can be survived (ruby flask helps)
- double flame blast (that´s probably the ability you mean): she channels 2 huge flameblasts on the arena, that has to be dodged, maybe you can survive it with a ruby flask active, but i recommend popping a quicksilver and running to a place that does not get hit asap.
- spear throw: she throws spears at you, sometimes a lot of them in a cone. you can not dodge all of these, but they do not deal that much damage, dispel the bleed they apply if necessary.
she also goes into 2 different phases (beside the main phase)
split phase (she goes into that phase 3 times during the fight):
she splits into 4 copies of herself, you have to kill one to pass the phase. each of the 4 uses different skill, one uses storm calls, one casts flameblast and one throws spears. the 4th carries a mirror in her hand, she reflects a big amount of physical and elemental damage back to the attacker, try to avoid attacking that copy, your spectres might kill themselves!
heal phase:
that phase is pretty easy, she gets immune to damage during it, but also does not attack. mobs will spawn and slowly walk towards her, if they reach her, atziri will get healed. however the mobs grant flask charges and are not hard to kill.
also be aware of the fact that atziri reflects curses you apply on her back to you, so if you curse her with elemental weakness you also curse yourself! either dispel that curse with a flask, use a topaz+ruby to be capped anyway, do not use elemental weakness during the fight or do not get hit during the fight (the first 2 options are probably the better ones).
Last edited by xxWolf on Aug 21, 2017, 11:26:01 AM
Right now I havent invested into the skill duration nodes because I wanted to reach at least 7k to 7,2 K ES first. Ill spec out of some ES nodes when I get presence of Chayula and also gloves with a 200 ES minimum base. My gloves are pretty bad and only have 130ish ES and not very good stats.
Right now I'm at 7,350 ES and 1300ish life life. Unreserved life is 350.
Apart from stun theres not much that can just one shot me so im hesitant to take eye of chayula over the 20% + max ES amulet. I dont want to be below 7k ES because that ES pool I have right now seams to be the minimum to survive most initial burst dmgs. When I had 6 k to 6,5 K ES before some optimizations, I realized below 7K ES is just too low.
But if Eye of Chayula is cheap (ill check it now) then ill get it anyway and test it out.
Yeah...now that I kinda undertand what kind of ES pool works (if resists are high enough or maxed even) and how it interacts with vaal discipline and immunity to stun I realize just how incredibly strong that must have been pre 3.0.
I mean ppl had 10k ES. Or even 15+ K ES. Some even more than that.
That combined with high resists, a shavs or CI and vaal discipline. Damn. Thats basically an unkillable tank.
I can even understand that they nerfed it. With those pre 3.0 dynamics you could make builds that would prolly never even struggle at all vs endgame bosses and could face tank anything with pretty budget friendly gear.
I think once I get chayula I will have invested around 8 - 9 exaults.
And that is only due to shavs being a lot cheaper now. I got it like a year ago and it was 3 - 4 exalts back then. Now its not even half that price I think :(
Right now I havent invested into the skill duration nodes because I wanted to reach at least 7k to 7,2 K ES first. Ill spec out of some ES nodes when I get presence of Chayula and also gloves with a 200 ES minimum base. My gloves are pretty bad and only have 130ish ES and not very good stats.
Right now I'm at 7,350 ES and 1300ish life life. Unreserved life is 350.
Apart from stun theres not much that can just one shot me so im hesitant to take eye of chayula over the 20% + max ES amulet. I dont want to be below 7k ES because that ES pool I have right now seams to be the minimum to survive most initial burst dmgs. When I had 6 k to 6,5 K ES before some optimizations, I realized below 7K ES is just too low.
But if Eye of Chayula is cheap (ill check it now) then ill get it anyway and test it out.
Yeah...now that I kinda undertand what kind of ES pool works (if resists are high enough or maxed even) and how it interacts with vaal discipline and immunity to stun I realize just how incredibly strong that must have been pre 3.0.
I mean ppl had 10k ES. Or even 15+ K ES. Some even more than that.
That combined with high resists, a shavs or CI and vaal discipline. Damn. Thats basically an unkillable tank.
I can even understand that they nerfed it. With those pre 3.0 dynamics you could make builds that would prolly never even struggle at all vs endgame bosses and could face tank anything with pretty budget friendly gear.
I think once I get chayula I will have invested around 8 - 9 exaults.
And that is only due to shavs being a lot cheaper now. I got it like a year ago and it was 3 - 4 exalts back then. Now its not even half that price I think :(
your shav´s should be worth a bit more, as it got legacy with the 3.0 patch. ;)
So I am pretty new but I have gotten this up to the point where I have a 4 linked shavs and am running some low tier maps. I was wondering the title says 10 zombies. But I cant seem to find where does the last zombie comes from? I have both the boots and the wand which have increase to zombies bu I only have 9.
So I am pretty new but I have gotten this up to the point where I have a 4 linked shavs and am running some low tier maps. I was wondering the title says 10 zombies. But I cant seem to find where does the last zombie comes from? I have both the boots and the wand which have increase to zombies bu I only have 9.
"Grave Intentions" it's close to the witch starter area.
