3.1 Map sustain is beyond awful.

there is little difficulty left to gate anything behind - 3.1 gave away power in quantities unseen previously. reflect removal + abyss jewels + items like poet's pen and skills like Detonate Dead (you think VD is good, try out the DD..)

there is no difficulty to gate anything behind. just because of people who like to win everytime everywhere without any effort

and sorry but this 'maps do not drop' is just unrealistic expectations - Harbinger with its orbs and Beachead made endgame 'everyone is invited' and now some miss that

example map drops from t13, 22% packsize map:


sure, there are dry runs with 2-3 maps, but this is a norm for me and hearing people cannot support 'red maps' i call 'BS'. (unless they mean 'i cannot sustain t16' indefinitely). t11 and t12 is imo impossible to NOT sustain even when run blue. and this is the worst way - once you alch-n-go, t13+ will start to drop and then you go up from there

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sidtherat wrote:

and sorry but this 'maps do not drop' is just unrealistic expectations - Harbinger with its orbs and Beachead made endgame 'everyone is invited' and now some miss that

Harbinger league was the best league ever for a SSF approach to maps (I hate "buying" any content). Everybody called it a garbage league, but I miss it.

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Grauthrim wrote:

END GAME CONTENT SHOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR PLAY.

it is available to play. you just need to invest into it.

the whole 'my build can do t15s therefore I must have t15s to play' is a huge fallacy and Ive been telling that to people since 2013 (you know, those days where people exalted high tier maps because they were so rare)

poe's progression is not a very good one and being able to roll your own content means a build at lvl 75 can easily do white t15 maps. that doesnt mean they SHOULD be doing t15 maps at that level or even should be ABLE to get to that content (and obviously, in something like SSF you cant do that)

then shit like harbinger made it so a tier of currency such as chisel was useless and maps were dropping like raindrops from the sky.

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Peterlerock wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

and sorry but this 'maps do not drop' is just unrealistic expectations - Harbinger with its orbs and Beachead made endgame 'everyone is invited' and now some miss that

Harbinger league was the best league ever for a SSF approach to maps (I hate "buying" any content). Everybody called it a garbage league, but I miss it.

havent bought a single map since 2013 and hated harbinger. I like to work my way up the mapping pyramid, kinda like grinding low stakes in poker and go up tiers once you grind enough.

harbinger you just went through maps like knife through butter. wheres that oprah gif, you get a t16 map and you get a t16 map, everyone gets a t16 map. shit is boring. whats the point of the map system if you straight up dive and go through as fast as possible ?

I know its 2018 and people are brought up conditioned by other games to never have a struggle or stuck moment, but it never ceases to amaze me.

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grepman wrote:

harbinger you just went through maps like knife through butter. wheres that oprah gif, you get a t16 map and you get a t16 map, everyone gets a t16 map. shit is boring. whats the point of the map system if you straight up dive and go through as fast as possible ?

Set your loot filter to hide all rare and magic maps, then you have it harder. Problem solved for you. For the rest of us, Harbinger was awesome in terms of maps. Felt absolutely great.

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lagwin1980 wrote:

You guys have been pampered with the atlas abuse and forgot that it IS intended that high tier maps are not supposed to be sustainable.

Why not? Red maps bring challenge, why should you be stuck in boringly easy tier 1-2 maps?

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osesek wrote:

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lagwin1980 wrote:

You guys have been pampered with the atlas abuse and forgot that it IS intended that high tier maps are not supposed to be sustainable.

Why not? Red maps bring challenge, why should you be stuck in boringly easy tier 1-2 maps?

You know there is a difference in "always only doing red" and "stuck in tier 1-2" right? There is no way to even be stuck in tier 1-2.

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grepman wrote:

I like to work my way up the mapping pyramid, kinda like grinding low stakes in poker and go up tiers once you grind enough.

...and I like a feeling of completion.
Playing t15 maps and still having holes in my atlas because Zana doesn't want to sell some random low tier maps was always annoying to me. Same as buying these maps, or going back down to t3 to farm the missing t4.

In Harbinger, I just spammed a couple horizon orbs on the right tier. It wasn't for free, I payed more in currency doing this over using the player market, but I did it myself.

(I'm not complaining about access to map tiers, btw. Never had any trouble progressing. It's just those nasty little holes in the atlas, that you can only close by going backwards)

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Grauthrim wrote:

P.S. Running a Windripper MF build. Also changes nothing. Map drop rate still feels the same, even with 34982374587% increased quantity, rarity, monster pack size...

Just FYI, increased quantity on items does not increase map drop rates. Increased rarity has also no influence on map drop rates. Only the increased quantity on the map itself and pack size indirectly, have influence on map drops.

Also note that the increased quantity on the map is just a multiplier for the map base drop rate (which is most certainly a value rolled on a min-max span) and sometimes maps with high IIQ will have bad returns, while maps with mediocre IIQ will drop plenty of maps. This behaviour annoys me since ever...


My experience in SSF Abyss:

T16 & T15 are not sustainable (which is OK). Pools are fluctuating up and down.
T14 is borderline sustainable
T13 is fully sustainable (pool is only growing)
T12 & T11 are "garbage" maps, I only Alc & go them now

In trade leagues you should easily sustain T14, not by buying them, just by having a lot more currency to throw at mapping. Roll maps for 80+ quant, 20+ pack & add zana, or vaal for 8 mod (120+ quant, 30+ pack). Add sac frag if you feel like (I dont do it). The usage of sextants in SSF is extremely limited, but you can probably afford to run every map fully sextanted in trade leagues. (even if you dont do it, you should be able to sustain at least what people in SSF are able to)

The only annoying thing are those holes left behind by maps which can't be tiered up. If you want neat completion, you have to progress from all four corners simultaneously, never starting to do the next tier, until you have collected all of them. I didn't follow this strategy and I still haven't been able to unlock two of the T16 and several T15. My atlas is at 143%.

I am running T16s and I am able to sustain them.

I vaal every map - sell minus max / noregen, run the rest with Bloodlines or Ambush mod, got return 1 T16 on average from every run.
From sold Corrupted T16s i am unable to run i get currency to roll the Zana mods. I don't bother with Sextants.