Why dedicate my time if I can lose all my XP with a death penalty?

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

"

mrxkon#5764 wrote:

You're telling folks that they live in a fantasy and that the game they ask doesn't "exist" but only in their imagination. Yet here we are, with over 1000 ( ? ) arpgs out there that don't impose any penalties.

Unless if you meant it specifically for the PoE franchise, which only has 1 game and that is a "spiritual successor to D2" according to some people, so I can argue here that, the xp loss wasn't even their idea as that's the truth, see?

The 2nd installment isn't here yet, it is still under early access and technically "under feedback" hence these forums and a very good tipping point in time to somewhat detach itself from PoE 1 or D2 if GGG wants it ( and I mean it in terms of technicalities, not in terms of story etc ).

Or are you considering PoE 2 a "done deal" now and all of this feedback situation is just dust in the wind ?

If there is 1000 ARPG out there without death penalties, and that you really dislike it, why are you here playing a game with a death penalty ? Why should PoE2 change to please you if it's already and extrem niche exception ?

Are you fighting a crusade for all games to have the exact same rules and gameplay ? You can't let people enjoying PoE2's design have it ? If it's only 3 games out of 1000 having such harsh penalty, what's the issue ? Who is forcing to play it ?

"I want to play PoE2 because it's unique but without the things that makes it unique pleeasee" ???

I can't believe you're still here arguing xD

"

Ankh_13#4218 wrote:

I have 200h and I left a negative review. And I love the game to death.

That's because actual Steam veterans understand what "Early Access" means over there. You're not supposed to pull punches because "it's not fully released yet". On Steam, far too many titles either sit in EA forever or get abandoned. So you're supposed to treat it as a FULL PRODUCT. Let other customers know what they're buying in case no more updates ever come.

And under those conditions, I (and many others) could not with a good conscience give a positive review.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Being "veterans" doesn't mean much if nothing at all, not in a context of rules & regulations. And no offense is intended here.

Allow me to give some examples idea and this is according to the EA steam page that you linked :

"

Steam Early Access enables you to sell your game on Steam while it is still being developed, and provides context to customers that a product should be considered "unfinished."

It is to be considered "unfinished", the exact opposite of what you're saying a "full product", so I'm not sure how you arrived on this conclusion ?

Saying that you're supposed to treat it as a "full product" and left a review as such, goes against the mentioned document ( even if it's for the developers, not you ).

Within the same section:

"

Releasing a game in Early Access helps set context for prospective customers and provides them with information about your plans and goals before a "final" release.

Note "before a final release", same point, different lingo.

A bit further down:

"

Early Access titles must deliver a playable game or usable software to the customer at the time of purchase, while pre-purchase games are delivered at a future date.

It is in fact in a playable state, you can log in, move around, do all acts, reach the endgame so on so forth.

Are there bugs? Sure, but that is irrelevant within this context, it is still playable.

I personally didn't see anything in that page that goes "against" on what GGG released.

I'm still curious on how you came to the conclusion that you need to leave a review as a "full product". If that's an "understanding" simply between the players, doesn't mean that it's correct.

By justifying your cause because "no more updates ever come", is not good reasoning in my opinion. That is implied by the game being in EA by default, it should still be treated for "what it is", an EA and the state that it was given to you, nothing more, nothing less.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

why are you here playing a game with a death penalty ?

PoE2's mechanics are temporarily fully cloned from PoE1 and since it is under early access,

- the usefulness or obsolescence of those mechanics,
- their motivating or discouraging value and
- the views of potential players other than those already heavily dedicated to PoE1

are an open field, free to discuss. None of the implemented mechanics have to be integrated into the final product, unless there is no intend to widen and/or change the audience, which is very unlikely.

So, people play this game DESPITE of it having an xp loss penalty and discussing it's value for the game because the game is in a development state allowing for feedback.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

If there is 1000 ARPG out there without death penalties, and that you really dislike it, why are you here playing a game with a death penalty ? Why should PoE2 change to please you if it's already and extrem niche exception ?

Are you fighting a crusade for all games to have the exact same rules and gameplay ? You can't let people enjoying PoE2's design have it ? If it's only 3 games out of 1000 having such harsh penalty, what's the issue ? Who is forcing to play it ?

"I want to play PoE2 because it's unique but without the things that makes it unique pleeasee" ???

So... If everyone jumped off a cliff, you'd clearly want to do it as well since everyone does it. Since who wouldn't jump of a cliff when everyone jumps off the cliff?

As people have already mentioned, repeatedly in these threads. The exp loss only exists due to old game design ideas. And since it kicks in so late, often after the majority of players have left the game it's never really been met with the appropriate resistance.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

If there is 1000 ARPG out there without death penalties, and that you really dislike it, why are you here playing a game with a death penalty ? Why should PoE2 change to please you if it's already and extrem niche exception ?

Are you fighting a crusade for all games to have the exact same rules and gameplay ? You can't let people enjoying PoE2's design have it ? If it's only 3 games out of 1000 having such harsh penalty, what's the issue ? Who is forcing to play it ?

"I want to play PoE2 because it's unique but without the things that makes it unique pleeasee" ???

Because it's a feedback forum, I can come here and ask for pink bubbles and unicorns, that is not for you to debate, my ( and everyone's for any matter ) feedback is for GGG, not you. I'm strictly talking about "Feedback" not general discussion at the moment.

You can disagree with me even on my feedback as I mentioned, with valid reasoning, but you shouldn't be trying to force my opinion away nor be dismissive of it, that is simply wrong.

I can't make it more clear.

Lastly for the sake of context, I am personally ok with the xp loss, or basically indifferent, it can stay, it can go, I don't mind. I'm not ok with people trying to shut down others opinions though, especially with meaningless ( in my opinion ) reasons more specifically on a feedback forum for an EA.

"

mrfox123#7595 wrote:

So... If everyone jumped off a cliff, you'd clearly want to do it as well since everyone does it. Since who wouldn't jump of a cliff when everyone jumps off the cliff?

As people have already mentioned, repeatedly in these threads. The exp loss only exists due to old game design ideas. And since it kicks in so late, often after the majority of players have left the game it's never really been met with the appropriate resistance.

Well, the cliff metaphor applies to you in this case, because you are forcing yourself to play a game you hate and complains about it daily.

Also, the death penalty exist for obvious reasons, reasons we tell you about daily that you refuse to comprehend. They don't exist "just because". The design idea isn't old as even a game one month old use it.

If people leave the game after clearing the campaign, it's because they had closure and know they don't want go spend their time in the endless Engame and move on. They are Smart casuals. They respect their own limits and their time.

Stupid casuals think they can finish the Endgame in one click, in no time, and without risks. And then they complain they can't and ask the game to ne made easier.

"

mrfox123#7595 wrote:

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

For me personally, channelling adds nothing to the game other than aversion for its maechanics. Therefore....it should and MUST be removed from the game.

Channelling is a tag found on certain skills. Skills that aren't necessarily mandatory to use outside of some builds.

Exp-loss on death is a tacked on archaic feature that actively tells players to fuck off if they want to engage with any of the various high end features while also levelling their character, a feature that can't be avoided (outside of a certain carry in PoE1).

Either have fun with the league mechanics or grind easy maps mindlessly for hours on end.

You are just playing "fancy footwork" to lend credibility to your rationale. When in fact....it is the SAME base nonsense rationale that I applied. Your impression of the exp penalty is likely shared by just as small a population as those that play channelling builds. In fact, probably less. You and others like you think you are speaking "objectively" and with the majority, when your argument is really just as absurd as my channelling comment.

"

mrfox123#7595 wrote:

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

I feel like the "threat" you speak of is going in the opposite direction: newer or "pleb" players as you put it (which I don't) feel threatened by exp and progress loss. Rather than meeting it as a challenge worth overcoming and....overcoming it.

It's not a challenge. It's a mindless grind where the game will spit on your face if you start having fun, cause when you do you will get blown up by a random projectile.

What you just described has.....nothing to do with the exp penalty? Remove the random projectile that you said and the exp penalty is fine? smh. The same people that complain about the exp penalty are the same people that die a few times and ragequit/close the game, rather than taking the few seconds (or minutes) to assess WHY you died. It's these same people that complain that the game offers "no information" when you die. It's also these same people that will drive this game completely into the ground as another idle-game-at-heart autoprogresser.


You end up complaining about so many different things, you have absolutely no focus to your criticism. And these arguments all boil down to the same basic concept, without fail: "I do not like to be challenged, therefore PoE2 BAD". You get called out, and then you backtrack with "its not a challenge". It literally accomplished its mission of challenging you on your quest to level 100. That's precisely why you are here raging. If you KNOW the solution to NOT interact with the exp penalty.....then DO IT! Just like I can choose to, you know, NOT play channelling skills.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Also, the death penalty exist for obvious reasons, reasons we tell you about daily that you refuse to comprehend. They don't exist "just because". The design idea isn't old as even a game one month old use it.

And I can tell you that xp loss exists simply because it existed in D2 and GGG liked that as "players" so they simply continued it since they had the opportunity.

Nothing more, nothing less than that. Everything else that you're trying to justify it with might as well be thin air.

"

If people leave the game after clearing the campaign, it's because they had closure and know they don't want go spend their time in the endless Engame and move on. They are Smart casuals. They respect their own limits and their time.

You don't know that, you can't assume what other people do "just because it fits your storytelling". Not without any actual data or facts, which is still for GGG to decide after checking all the feedback etc.

And in contrast some are here actually saying "I stopped because I don't like the xp loss" but yet here you are trying to shove them away and prove them wrong. So you have to decide now which of the 2 is it?

Dividing people into 'smart' and 'stupid' for wanting to finish a game or not is pretty low in my opinion. It doesn't give you any credits.

"

mrxkon#5764 wrote:

You don't know that, don't assume what other people do "just because it fits your storytelling".

Practice what you preach

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

"

mrxkon#5764 wrote:

You don't know that, don't assume what other people do "just because it fits your storytelling".

Practice what you preach

I do, please do tell where did I fall off and I'll be happy to either discuss it or directly apologize. I don't have a problem at all.