Why dedicate my time if I can lose all my XP with a death penalty?

"

Fhrek#4437 wrote:

Atm PoE 2 is a timesink, not a time to enjoy.

Many people enjoying it right now.

It always loos funny btw, when someone is playing the game and keep telling how much he hates spending time on that game :)

Pls don't listen to this GGG.

"

deltaco#0380 wrote:

Pls don't listen to this GGG.

Or listen, that people are complaining that current state is an easy mode and not challenging enough.

"

Fhrek#4437 wrote:

"

Valsacar#0268 wrote:

People complain about losing 10% xp because they failed a map, but they wouldn't complain at all about losing 60% xp because they failed a map.

Hmm... something just feels off there, but I'm sure you're right.

Besides the EXP lost, we lost the map, the loot, the juices, the precursor tablets... just punishments, no carrots at all.

At least with six portals, we could re enter the map... get our loot and try again to observe mechanics, learn, adapt...

One and done is silly, is childish...

You didn't lose the map, it's still right there.

You lost the waystone, which honestly drop constantly once you know what you are doing. As long as you aren't failing repeatedly you should sustain with little effort.

You did not lose the tablet, it is still in the tower you put and affecting all qualifying nodes.

You lost the bonuses for not failing (you know, the carrot) in the form of modifiers and bonus content on that map node.

A carrot is only a carrot if you have to earn it.

What we need is player agency and player choice. You also need to be rewarded for additional risk.

Just add a toggle
• Option 1: 2-6 Portals and/or no XP loss on death
• Option 2: 1 Portal and 10% XP loss on death with increased drop rates (e.g. 50% increased rarity)

This way you reward both sets of the player base. The casuals can just blast without the stress and risk of death, whilst the veterans can continue to challenge themselves and build characters to deal with the added risk.

"

Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

With infinite attempts per map, what percentage of people could clear that map? About 100%, right? Then challenge is in what, in spending enough time?

Super Meat Boy - less than 10% of players complete the main game.

If you only count players that got the first achievement, it's still just a bit over 10%.

Turns out that unlimited tries don't guarantee success.

Look at the achievements for Elden Ring, Code Vein, Hollow Knight.

Challenging content is a better gate than XP penalties and limited attempts.

"

Magoraz#6258 wrote:

What we need is player agency and player choice. You also need to be rewarded for additional risk.

Just add a toggle
• Option 1: 2-6 Portals and/or no XP loss on death
• Option 2: 1 Portal and 10% XP loss on death with increased drop rates (e.g. 50% increased rarity)

This way you reward both sets of the player base. The casuals can just blast without the stress and risk of death, whilst the veterans can continue to challenge themselves and build characters to deal with the added risk.

great idea!

so basically get your 100lvl and take 50% rarity (or something)

"

Mouser#2899 wrote:

"

Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

With infinite attempts per map, what percentage of people could clear that map? About 100%, right? Then challenge is in what, in spending enough time?

Super Meat Boy - less than 10% of players complete the main game.

If you only count players that got the first achievement, it's still just a bit over 10%.

Turns out that unlimited tries don't guarantee success.

Look at the achievements for Elden Ring, Code Vein, Hollow Knight.

Challenging content is a better gate than XP penalties and limited attempts.

and why meatboys is so a hard game?
What happened if you die? Roll gameplay back. And closing the map is a rollback. Same mechanic.
Not closing the map - is like allow meatboy run from the point he should die. It will result in 99% players finishing the game (if not bored)

"

Mouser#2899 wrote:

"

Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

With infinite attempts per map, what percentage of people could clear that map? About 100%, right? Then challenge is in what, in spending enough time?

Super Meat Boy - less than 10% of players complete the main game.

If you only count players that got the first achievement, it's still just a bit over 10%.

Turns out that unlimited tries don't guarantee success.

Look at the achievements for Elden Ring, Code Vein, Hollow Knight.

Challenging content is a better gate than XP penalties and limited attempts.

Exactly, those games are challenging, because not everyone was able to earn a victory. Currently, we are talking about PoE 2. How you are imagining maps which people can't clear with infinite attempts? I agree that such game could be fun, but in PoE 2 it's different, so challenge has to be applied by risk of death.

"

Magoraz#6258 wrote:

Just add a toggle
• Option 1: 2-6 Portals and/or no XP loss on death
• Option 2: 1 Portal and 10% XP loss on death with increased drop rates (e.g. 50% increased rarity)

There is an economy behind all this, you can't just put in several difficulties and share one economy. That's not how things work.

It's simply time to get rid of outdated mechanics. XP loss is not encouraging players, it's just demotivating. And i'm quite sure, GGG has the detailed retention metrics that support this. There are tons of punishments active, why put such an demotivating archaic mess of a punishment on top, i don't get it.

There are so many people here getting the concept of challenging content wrong, it's mindblowing. Everyone, me included, LOVES challenging content. But challenging also means learning. And with all that stupid layers of punishment it's impossible to learn anything, players need to complete content first try to not LOSE the time they invested. They cant even retry. That's not how 'challenging' works.

Cascades of users gave examples like Elden Ring, having very challenging content, but the game does NOT reset your time invested. Elden Ring is a financially successful game and a challenge to master. It captured many, many players into the soulslike spirit.

PoE2 could do this for the arpg genre. But it fails to set the right balance thrilling very new players into the franchise - by implementing demotivating punishments like xp loss they cater players of PoE1 without widening the audience. Once all the Steam casuals will reach endgame and hit these punishment levels, this won't have any positive effect on the game. And after 57 pages of hearing arguments, i STILL don't understand why xp loss should be in the game but 'traditions'. Coming from PoE1 veterans who HIGHLY BENEFIT from keeping an xp distance to the players, because they profit from this distance making tons of ingame currency by that. So, this is NOT an objective discussion here, it's highly biased.

Bottom line: If you are motivated, you keep spending time in a game. If a game constantly throws demotivating mechanics in your face, you're not challenged but frustrated. Learn the difference. It's not that hard.