Unpopular Opinion: League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

Saw toforto was last commenter and came here to see if he was still wrong about every post he makes.

Verified.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Do you have any clue how many people play only because of challenge rewards? And then logout after getting their 36 or 38. Especially when its a portal reward.

I don't know, do you? The last time I checked you are no employee of GGG and thus have no insight in such metrics. At best, what you're trying to sell as objective facts boils down to nothing but "Source: Trust me bro".

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

That's like saying a dev should delete a game's easy mode because people are having fun playing it, just cus you think they should "git gud". Yeah not happening lol

Softcore Trade is this games "easy mode" and it is the baseline experience. No one is asking to delete it, we're merely asking for scalable features.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Also I'm not stating my opinion here, I'm simply stating facts.

A fact is a provable statement that can be shown to be true or false without any doubt. An opinion expresses a personal belief, idea, or feeling and is not provable.

You keep mixing these two up in your contributions. You make it hard to actually engage in meaningful and fruitful discussions because you keep saying X is an objective fact and outright dismiss any potential argument or point of view to be had.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

There is nothing to be discussed here, go play SSF,HC or Ruthless or any combination of those.

There certainly is. It is precisely what these forums are made for. Don't like it? Don't click the thread - it really is that simple.

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Piousqd#0073 wrote:

Saw toforto was last commenter and came here to see if he was still wrong about every post he makes.

Verified.

Based.

Literally go play SSF/HC/Ruthless. That's what those modes exist for. That's the solution here. Trying to force everyone to play SSF is the most cringe thing I've ever seen ngl

Literally no point in ruining the game for 99% of players just cus you don't wanna actually play the harder modes yourself. Maybe they should make a mediumcore league then.


Carries have always been, will always be a core part of the trade experience. You can always just choose not to buy carries if you don't like em so much, how others play the game doesn't affect you and it never has. This is an objective fact.

Voidstones should be solo for sure. Idk about all challenges. Some of them are just annoying. Although the most annoying ones to me are the "hit xxx eldritch altars" when you hardly altar farm. Idk if that ones viable to do carries with.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Literally go play SSF/HC/Ruthless. That's what those modes exist for. That's the solution here. Trying to force everyone to play SSF is the most cringe thing I've ever seen ngl

Literally no point in ruining the game for 99% of players just cus you don't wanna actually play the harder modes yourself. Maybe they should make a mediumcore league then.

You still don’t seem to understand the difference between what’s actually being asked and the points you keep raising.
Nobody is asking for forced SSF, this thread isn’t about making the game harder.

It’s about improving the challenge system within the core game, an optional feature that works across all modes. Take Ruthless as an example, it has its own set of challenges carefully designed with that mode in mind. The same cannot be said for the core game, where many challenges are still built around trade leagues and often result in unfun RNG grinds for SSF.

It’s time to find a middle ground that works for both trade and SSF, remove trade-balanced low-drop gated challenges, and at the same time expand the system with fun, engaging objectives. Challenges should reflect personal character and skill growth, not whether someone can afford multiple carry runs. Cheesing through objectives that are supposed to test skill defeats the very purpose of the system.

The core game’s challenge system needs a serious improvement, remove tedious, outdated chores like decade-old vendor recipes, cut down on poorly designed tasks, and create carefully worded challenges that are actually a challenge, meaningful, rewarding, and enjoyable for all types of players.

Instead of contributing constructively, you derail the discussion with “just play HC” or claim, without evidence, that “99% of players” oppose the idea. If you don’t intend to participate properly, it’s better not to engage at all. Using false facts as a shield for your own opinion is neither helpful nor productive.

If you don’t like the idea, say so and explain why. At least be honest and admit that you’re already challenged by the core game and don’t like the idea of improving, overcoming walls, or facing optional side activities yourself, maybe with the fear of missing out if you can’t complete them.

That would be far more honest than pretending to speak for others who don’t share or voice your view or opinion.

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Piousqd#0073 wrote:

Saw toforto was last commenter and came here to see if he was still wrong about every post he makes.

Verified.

Based :)

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

Although the most annoying ones to me are the "hit xxx eldritch altars" when you hardly altar farm.

This is something they really need to change cause it really does feel like forced content. They already did better on most challenges by giving you multiple choices, but there's not really much a choice if you have to do both altars and maven pretty much every league. It should be just "pick 1 out of the 3" and not do both or even worse all 3 options each and every single league.

"player services" are a bug which should be corrected.

ggg never really thought about the consequences they cause.


the very very very very very very very very least they could have done is to allow services ONLY if you`re in the same (what they're calling the community which you're having to buy yourself into by purchasing guild tabs with real money) GUILD!

It's been a few pages but I'll throw this here to clarify (although it won't help the "verified" players in the conversation that refuse to listen)

There are TWO SEPARATE ISSUES:

1) Challenges being solo vs allowing carries to exist that trivialize them
2) Challenges being GOOD, well designed challenges.


These two things are somewhat mutually exclusive and shouldn't be confused. Challenges, by design, are optional content added ON TOP OF the base game to add a layer of difficulty. Upon rising to the challenge and completing that additional difficulty or task, you get rewarded both in terms of mtx you can't get elsewhere and bragging rights on the forums with a nice number next to your name. That is quite literally their only reasons to exist in the game, from a design standpoint.

This is what is being discussed. And this is what is proposed to be solo completion: because carries existing defeats the purpose of a challenge even being a challenge. And this remains fundamentally true for EVERYONE who does challenges, regardless of whether or not you engage in carries. Unless you are one of the rare few that legitimately only does challenges on your own, for no other reason but to challenge yourself to them: no care of mtx, no care of the forum marker, no care of getting to 40/40, etc.


Now.....challenges being pointless grinds, or complete wastes of time (using a certain number of orbs).....that is a SEPARATE ISSUE with challenges that would require its own thread to chat about. But the only way THIS particular issue can be tackled with any meaningful development would REQUIRE challenge completion to be overhauled: namely, that they must be completed by yourself. If that were a fundamental requirement, grinds could be lowered, mechanic challenges could exist easier, and the actual rewards would be meaningful.


People keep trying to say this is "forcing ssf". No.....CHALLENGES ARE, AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, OPTIONAL. Just as choosing to play in SSF is OPTIONAL. Just as playing in HC is OPTIONAL. Challenges are not a guaranteed, fundamental aspect of playing PoE. They are additional optional content that SHOULD be challenging to players.

Challenges MIGHT force you to do content you wouldn't otherwise do, but that's kind of the point of their entire existence. Hence, the OPTIONAL nature.



As they stand right now, challenges are little more than chores players do just to get their mtx: when looked at through BOTH of the issues at the start of this post. They require absolutely nothing from the individual player both in game knowledge and game ability, nor do they actually function as "challenges" on game content. And this discussion is quite a good representation of just how much they have LOST in their namesake design: folks don't even understand what an optional challenge is anymore.


And GGG could EASILY look at #2 situation and design challenges unique to every mode. But challenges OVERALL should be solo or else specifically designated and designed as "multiplayer" challenges.
An example of the latter multiplayer-designed challenge could be "Defeat Uber Elder with a party, where one player deals all the damage to kill the Shaper and NO damage to the Elder".

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

No.....CHALLENGES ARE, AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, OPTIONAL

NOPE!

doing challenges is the only way to get your hands on some really good mtx.
things would be different if could buy those mtx with real money. but you can't.

the real challenge for those ssf game nerds here is to exploit other players by going into parties with them.
looks like a easy thing to do but to many it's not, they have mental problems doing that.

reason's are plentiful. to me, doing challenges in a group feels like cheating and i got most challenges done by throwing my pride overboard and "getting help", knowing that i'm bad at the game.


so, eventually, getting help with challenges means you're giving up on them.


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there should be two types of achievements: getting them yourself and getting them with help from others.
the first one should be rewarded, the second one should be a unrewarded entry in your account

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cronus#1461 wrote:

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

No.....CHALLENGES ARE, AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, OPTIONAL

NOPE!

doing challenges is the only way to get your hands on some really good mtx.
things would be different if could buy those mtx with real money. but you can't.

dude......prizes are NOT guaranteed, in any situation in life including video games. That is a laughable reason for claiming that challenges are not optional content. It also very much highlights the PROBLEM with their current design and what it has trained players to expect.

MTX for completing challenges are PRIZES. They are OPTIONAL. You are NOT guaranteed those mtx, ever. Ever, ever, ever.

Having unique mtx available for completing challenges is actually more an argument FOR them being optional content, than against it. It's a phenomenon known as "exclusivity".


Do you buy lottery tickets and expect to win every single time because you paid for the ticket? Have you entered every competition in your life expecting a prize no matter how you do in the competition? Obviously not. MTX you buy are guaranteed, but mtx offered through challenge completion are most assuredly NOT.




The Kirac Vault Pass is a great example of the DIFFERENCE between optional challenges and regular progress. It also highlights what you attribute incorrectly to challenges. Buying a Kirac Vault Pass guarantees that, thanks to natural progression through the game, you will get every single mtx that is offered. You buy it (presumably) knowing that you can complete it for that league because of your play time. And you'll never hear me, or likely anyone, asking for atlas completion to be solo achievements as THAT would be the purpose of SSF mode.

Challenges are WILDLY different design. You pay nothing, and are NOT guaranteed to get any of the offerings. It's almost the exact opposite design.