Crit Vs Reflect Unbalanced

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Real_Wolf wrote:

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Sodomee wrote:

What is the point of dangerous monsters if you can stand back as ranged and spam your attack until they are dead? You might as well just stack damage and kill things before they can even touch you.

Reflect is the main thing that practically forces ranged into getting some defenses and inturn sacrificing some damage. Melee will never have that choice and will always need defenses. There will never be a glass cannon melee build unless you love to die.

Really needs to be some anti-pointblank monsters, ie they do more damage based on the distance from the enemy.

Yeah, but I'm not sure if GGG is ready to implement this. It is a great idea though considering how fast you can go down as melee vs. mage skeletons. Ranged seriously need to be just as afraid as melee.

oops double

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tikitaki wrote:

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Sodomee wrote:

What is the point of dangerous monsters if you can stand back as ranged and spam your attack until they are dead?

If you are capable of doing that, then the monsters are by definition not dangerous.

That's the definition of danger. There has to be risk involved.

A reflect mechanic is not the only way to create danger. Monsters can and should be dangerous and a source of direct fear, for any character.

Any suggestions?

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SL4Y3R wrote:

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tikitaki wrote:

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Sodomee wrote:

What is the point of dangerous monsters if you can stand back as ranged and spam your attack until they are dead?

If you are capable of doing that, then the monsters are by definition not dangerous.

That's the definition of danger. There has to be risk involved.

A reflect mechanic is not the only way to create danger. Monsters can and should be dangerous and a source of direct fear, for any character.

Any suggestions?

That's for the "Suggestions Forum"

This one is the "Feedback Forum"

Got any feedback?

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Sodomee wrote:

Yeah, but I'm not sure if GGG is ready to implement this. It is a great idea though considering how fast you can go down as melee vs. mage skeletons. Ranged seriously need to be just as afraid as melee.

TBH I want a few week long races along the idea of the resistance nerf, with some significant change to evaluate gameplay.

Something simple like a week long race, enemy projectile damage is double (triple?) at a certain range, and half at melee range. And shotguns projectiles do not work aswell.

That would be fun and unique, having to get to ranged quickly, being super scared of large groups of ranged because until you close they all do tons of damage

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tikitaki wrote:

That's for the "Suggestions Forum"

This one is the "Feedback Forum"

Got any feedback?

Please learn how feedback works. Proposing sweeping changes without any actual information about potential solutions, just saying "they exist", mean devs will not be able to act on feedback.

Saying its simple to do, and not saying how, means dev's don't have time to look up and think of their own ideas.

Best feedback is to state the problem clearly, state why it is a problem, and offer a potential solution which fixes said problem while causing minute changes to other areas.

For example: Accuracy nodes on the tree are fairly worthless: As they are % nodes, and dex gives % accuracy, in the end dex accuracy is enough, and its flat accuracy you are after. Possible solution: Buffing the nodes on the tree, or having them give flat accuracy aswell.

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Real_Wolf wrote:

Saying its simple to do, and not saying how, means dev's don't have time to look up and think of their own ideas.

I didn't say it's simple. That's probably the exact opposite of what it is.

Making challenging AI alone is not easy, neither is balancing monster powers and abilities.

What's easy is implementing reflect damage mechanics. THAT is easy. There probably does not exist many more trivial forms of effective attacks besides just mashing on the keyboard and making really big numbers.

GGG seems to be taking the easy way out, and replacing the traditional hurtle of an ARPG (the monsters) with mechanics like reflect.

I don't understand the part about ideas from your post.

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tikitaki wrote:

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Real_Wolf wrote:

Saying its simple to do, and not saying how, means dev's don't have time to look up and think of their own ideas.

I didn't say it's simple. That's probably the exact opposite of what it is.

Making challenging AI alone is not easy, neither is balancing monster powers and abilities.

What's easy is implementing reflect damage mechanics. THAT is easy. There probably does not exist many more trivial forms of effective attacks besides just mashing on the keyboard and making really big numbers.

GGG seems to be taking the easy way out, and replacing the traditional hurtle of an ARPG (the monsters) with mechanics like reflect.

I don't understand the part about ideas from your post.

Other games had reflect before GGG.

Infact its a common trope of ARPG's.

Also to add to it, essentially you are saying "They should remove reflect and make the game harder in other ways" and then going "I have no idea what other ways, they should be developing them and add them".

Giving some idea of what you consider to be more challenging anti-glass cannon mechanics, with similar goals to reflect, but work better, is constructive.

Saying "fix it, its stupid, your stupid, this is stupid" is not constructive, and benefits the game in no way.




Those of us who like PoE, generally we try to (when proposing feedback) give more in depth reasoning behind our 'opinions', and also potential solutions. Even if the solution isn't the best, and in the end isn't used, you need to have alternatives available to consider, as then you can see the impact in more detail of having said alternative be actioned.

Lets say we dislike something simple, the damage output from facebreakers. We popose a simple change, make them do 950% instaed of 1000% max, what does this mean? Less overall damage for a perfect roll, less damage means less leech, less reflect damage. This doesn't have too many side effects either. This means the change would straight nerf it. What if we made it so that you can only deal physical damage though. This changes things significantly, and makes it almost worthless (no hatred/AFD/infernal blow/etc), yet both are aimed at decreasing the dps potential, but saying "we should make them do less damage" has multiple ways it can be achieved, and some are very stupid and bad

The best ARPG in history, Diablo 2, removed reflect. It was patched out.

As for the rest:

I'm not sure what to tell you because I don't know what you really expect from me. Do you want me to fully describe monsters down to the detail that are aggressive? Should I script out their AI as well, their full stats and abilities?

Are you asking me to design monsters? That's out of my budget, you have to pay $12,500 to design a monster.

I'm not really sure what you are asking from me.

I also don't agree with your paraphrased "summary" of what I said (if you can even call it a summary since you seem to be making things up).

My reasoning seemed plenty in depth to me. If it didn't to you, maybe you can be more in depth about telling me what exactly I'm missing rather than going on random tangents about facebreakers.

Pointing out that battling reflect mechanics is boring, as opposed to battling monsters, seems self-evident.

I'm not aware of any serious ARPG players who would openly admit that they prefer to fight against mechanics rather than monsters.

But you're not even offering ANY suggestions. No need to script anything. The biggest issue is this: whatever the suggestion may be has to be able to a) not be worse for melee compared to ranged b) be harmful to ranged

So, thinking of something that covers both those is no easy task. Reflect, while not elegant, does do what it's supposed to do. And it does it incredibly well.

One suggestion I've seen is for Brutus hook to be more prevalent. Think of the map mod chain. I wish this was an affix that could spawn on rares. It's an anti grouping mechanism. And it works great.