Development Manifesto - Balance Changes in Content Update 2.1.0 - Forum

" Rory wrote: Surgeon's Flasks (Nerfed, but not retroactively) Surgeon's flask mods now grant a chance to gain a charge on critical strike, rather than unconditionally granting one. I am so dissapointed with this change. Surgeon was too powerful because of CoC builds. But you harm all crit builds. Why did you put mod realiability behind RNG instead of defining cooldown between charges? " Rory wrote: This will not change flask mods spawned before the deployment of 2.1.0 - they will still work the old way. Why?!! This is what makes standard league a trash can. I already feel so low every time I am playing in this mess full of failed experiments.	Posted by Langhun#7314 on Dec 7, 2015, 8:12:23 AM Quote this Post
" onnymaru wrote: sigh... i hate how Incinerate really got nerfed... goodbye my long way to lv 100... goodbye my dream to enter the 100 list... i guess i'll be the mediocre player forever in playing PoE... That's why Incinerate got nerfed or maybe you're sarcastic.	Posted by Fenounet#0718 on Dec 7, 2015, 8:13:17 AM Quote this Post
" Langhun wrote: " Rory wrote: Surgeon's Flasks (Nerfed, but not retroactively) Surgeon's flask mods now grant a chance to gain a charge on critical strike, rather than unconditionally granting one. I am so dissapointed with this change. Surgeon was too powerful because of CoC builds. But you harm all crit builds. Why did you put mod realiability behind RNG instead of defining cooldown between charges? " Rory wrote: This will not change flask mods spawned before the deployment of 2.1.0 - they will still work the old way. Why?!! This is what makes standard league a trash can. I already feel so low every time I am playing in this mess full of failed experiments. It's so you can run around with a legacy aegis aurora, a legacy soul taker and a legacy bringer of rain being unkillable. To be honest they should find a way by now to not make more legacy items as it pretty much made the permanent leagues very meh with some overpowered stuff still around like legacy kaoms. + 1000 life loool. Or legacy lightning coil, 40%. Along with gear with highest rolls on everything and 400+ dps one handers.	Posted by Sogolon#3230 on Dec 7, 2015, 8:15:23 AM Quote this Post
" B2rad wrote: It's blowing my mind how many complainers there are about some of the posted changes... did you seriously want to play incinerate for a year? Try something new and get over yourselves. The best part of it all is everyone whines for a new meta and changes to make this happen... then when it happens everyone cries still. You truly cannot please certain people. Not agreeing with balance changes = crying. Nothing will really change in terms of build viability or diversity. Reason why is pretty simple. Give me one good reason to take duelist/ranger/shadow over scion, hell even witch over scion? Explain to me why nearly all builds require, and have to obligatory travel across the tree to the lifewheel next to scion? Things like this remain, while being stupidly meta, and truly OP, but strong skills need to be nerfed so they become as bad, or even worse than skills no-one is using in the first place. Tell me exactly what is the 'pro' of, at some point, being left with 3 million skills that all perform like a Granny in a wheelchair? Because this is what inevitably will happen if the nerf-police keeps crying about things performing just a bit outside of their perception of balance.	Posted by _PapaLegba_#5516 on Dec 7, 2015, 8:16:33 AM Quote this Post
" Saltychipmunk wrote: the issue with incinerate was unique in that clear speed was not the issue but rather what you could do with it investment wise. 1 it had no crit , but had the rather insane damage ramp up instead... this freed the player from needing to take crit nodes and by extension needing to really go deep into the int part of the tree for it. That is a huge advantage over every other spell in the game which often need crit to scale and be competitive. 2 it really was stupid powerful on totem builds since you could have zero resource management ( beyond what you implicitly get from leveling) invested and run fully decked out. this freed up another crippling dependency that other spells have (mana issues) 3 because damage scaling on it is simple it means you can focus both your gear AND your tree on other things. you make incinerate expensive. YOU , not the gem . My incinerate cost me 30 chaos and i was doing end game. It needed a change it was explicitly the superior option over several skills even in roles it should not be explicitly better in. that alone should have been enough to warrant adjustment. cyclone has been THE melee skill of the last 2 years. It combined both single target , movement and aoe and did more damage than prominent skills in any one of those catagories to boot. It is not about it being able to clear as fast as say coc (because lets be honest NOTHING clears like a crit build expecially coc) It is a bout being the clear best option in all cases for a melee character... and that is messed up. Same with surgeons flasks, be glad they didn’t simply remove the mod. Although I appreciate your points, I think we have a fundamentally different set of rules. End-game content for me is Tier 12+ maps, rippy shit. Not your Tier 6 Strand. I would love to see a video of someone clearing Core on a 30c Incinerate totem build. Hell, it's almost impossible to clear Core with my 50ex+ BM/Frenzy Incinerate, becacuse of a pretty retarded wall you'll hit in true end-game content being caster based (i.e. defensively). Again DPS is one facet of the spectrum. If you want to push a ladder, GL doing this with Incinerate or Cyclone. Things like Shockwave totem, which no-one really seem to care about, not only outscale damage but also clearspeed by miles with a relatively low budget. With better fucking survivability too! That's just one example. As i mentioned in the post above, things that really need rework (Scion class, Scion life-wheel etc) are things that would increase build/class diversity, numerically adjusting skills will only result in people choosing the skill that just about outperforms the skill that's second best. If you guys think a new Meta is what's needed, then looking at DPS output per skill is the least of your concern.	Posted by _PapaLegba_#5516 on Dec 7, 2015, 8:28:06 AM Quote this Post
Why does nobody give a... thing about Summon Skeletons? ;____; I'm so sad now... somebody give me a hug. ;-( Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.	Posted by Perq#4049 on Dec 7, 2015, 8:40:01 AM Quote this Post
I don't really care either way, but why create a monster by not nerfing flasks retroactively? It's almost like GGG likes doing this on purpose: legacy kaoms, shavs, mjolner, etc.	Posted by drake1666#4980 on Dec 7, 2015, 8:43:50 AM Quote this Post
My issue with this patch is not necessarily the fact that they nerfed certain skills or what not. My issue is the priority order here. Leech being necessary and all, wether I have 8 or 16% leech wont make a difference if I can get one shot from 11k+ es. The fact that energy shield is at its worst its ever been and that evasion characters get oneshot by white mobs on t13+ maps without a legacy coil and this all with no reaction from the balance team baffles me. ༗ IGN: Warcry ༗ ༗ Lvl 100s: #7 ༗ ༗ Twitch.tv/WarcryLive ༗ ༗ Velka's Ravens: 1772222 ༗ ༗ Mirror Thread: 1832043 ༗ #1 ES Wander Opal Ring ༗ #1 Lab Runner Vanguard Belt ༗	Posted by WarcryLegion#6721 on Dec 7, 2015, 8:47:17 AM Banned Quote this Post
" drake1666 wrote: I don't really care either way, but why create a monster by not nerfing flasks retroactively? It's almost like GGG likes doing this on purpose: legacy kaoms, shavs, mjolner, etc. Although I kinda agree, they are probably doing this because they believe that some people's builds and gear are too dependent on these flasks and doing such a profound retroactive change would ruin their work. Or maybe they like legacy stuff, its their way of giving standard something 'special'...	Posted by Drakkon1#0467 on Dec 7, 2015, 8:49:07 AM Quote this Post
Coc didnt have enough dps it seems buffing all spells 20% :D Why that change is not only selfcast? Same as flask- coc wont refill flask in 0,1s but in 0,5s! (if refill chance nerfed from 100% to 20%) outside coc crit builds will not recharge from 5s to 25s Once more missed the problem while the solution was simple and arleady in game: cooldown on flask refill Moreover skills nerfs seems to be like: our data tells that cyclone dominates melee builds so lets nerf just saying what it looks like, 0 global thinking like cyclone phys is balanced but coc cyclone is op as hell lets nerf just coc one. Last edited by davinci663#4947 on Dec 7, 2015, 9:04:15 AM	Posted by davinci663#4947 on Dec 7, 2015, 8:55:17 AM Quote this Post