They will delete MF in 3.24?

MF in POE is one challenge.
Before the Affliction league, MF is mostly tied to Standard, where a good MF build costs more than 10 mirrors.
Actually Affliction dropped the Mf to the common "poor" players, just to feel what it looks like.

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CarbotZergling123 wrote:

MF is not more expensive until you get into mirror tier, I could throw together a perfectly decent MF chieftan for about 50 divs in affliction and less in previous leagues, its just there are very few builds that can actually do MF without making sacrifices that basically cripple the build and this results in the vast majority of players getting funneled into MF if they ever want to have access to high end items like MB or chase FFF's, and as others have pointed out MF goes pretty strongly against the actual fantasy of ARPGs and has a nasty tendancy to turn playing the game into a chore. It distorts the market by giving the people who do MF over any other strat access to vastly more raw currency than other builds and drastically curtails what builds are truly competitive, the point of a wide open ARPG like PoE is that if you know what you are doing you should be able to play basically whatever build you want if you are actually mechanically decent at the game. Magic Find and the completely borked PoE economy directly contradicts that fantasy and drives massive inflation that other builds cannot reasonably address. Your whole rant about tall poppy syndrome is a complete misapprehension of at least everything I have said and quite possibly everyone else who has been complaining about MF distorting the economy, I am not complaining that the people who were lucky enough or dedicated the absurd amount of time into getting multiple mirrors having an easier time than me, I am complaining about how MF drives the price of items that you can't easily get while MFing up by an absurd margin, which makes it a serious struggle for people doing those other strategies to afford items that their builds want or need while also making it so you basically have to play x cheap mf build if you want to be able to afford the actual build you wanted to play this league if its not league startable.

You make several valid points. I don't want to let a lack of punctuation get in the way of that, though paragraphs, commas and full stops really help points make a better first impression on the reader.

MF Chieftans are a tanky hybrid of MF and whatever skill they use. I appreciate the effort people went to making those falcrum and other builds to help bridge the gap. You definitely could make a hybrid MF falcrum build for 50 Div. We both know that's not the MF people are talking about though. People are talking about the streamer MF builds. The TS HH builds. Additionally, a build that invested 0% into MF could arguably farm more currency than a falcrum, because they can do harder content, faster with more wisps.

When you've played the campaign and completed all content countless times, not having a goal is when PoE becomes a chore. Like how after level 100 the game's less fun. MF is unbelievably boring. The playstyle sucks and you're locked into the same farm loop. Farming the same content over and over on any build is a chore though. The nastiness you're speaking about is the monotony of the grind in an ARPG; something this league gave us a very welcome breath of fresh air from. I would argue though, a brief stint in this league, playing a terribly unfun MF build, is worth the reward once we go to standard and can make many fun builds to test out. Alternatively, it's all meaningless if you only play leagues as next league will be back to normal with MF being basically non-existent.

Being mechanically decent doesn't make any hypothetical build viable.

You are correct about some items being drastically inflated because they're not tied to MF. Some items are unbelievably expensive, though it's not that many. Original Sin and heist jewellery are what come to mind. Heist jewellery was drastically buffed in 3.23 though, so that compounds the issue. This is not the case of all items though, and this is evidence by your own point about a chieftan build being cheaper than last league even with this inflation that's apparently "borked" the economy. I agree with your point here generally though.

About your final point about my misapprehension of people's complaints: again, your own mention of the chieftan build costing less this league contradicts it. Anyone can farm more raw currency this league than in any other league in history, and although inflation absolutely has hit some items, it acutally results in many items being realistically muchycheaper than they were previously.

HH, MB, Voices, Squire and many other chase items and MUCH, MUCH cheaper this league with the rate of currency accumulation. Some even 20x cheaper than in standard like squire. Everyone's playing MF, and so MF is what's expensive. Your point about all other builds and strategies being absurdly more expensive does not ring true outside of ones that require a few key items.

One thing blows my mind. How could GGG see a system like that be transfered from Diablo 2 to PoE.
They seen this system where you can wear certain items and get more loot. System which was solely used by one single build, that was using same items every time. No other build was using such system and there was no room for any experimentation, improvement, changes, it was always the same boring Sorc build.
Now here comes GGG, sees this system and thinks: YES, WE WANT THIS FOR OUR GAME!
We present you... System that allows Tornado Shot Deadeye/PF get more loot. Hurray!
Honestly I would love to see data what builds were using MF. Im curious whether there was some insane person who tried using MF not on Bow Ranger.

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PANTHEONE wrote:

I might get hate from players, but I dream that MF and any party farming will be removed.

Why do you care what other people do?

If you don't like a certain playstyle, then don't engage w it - simple as that

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PANTHEONE wrote:

I might get hate from players, but I dream that MF and any party farming will be removed.

I actually thought i was the only one who wanted MF and party power bonus removed.

Nah basically everyone who plays solo wants the party boni removed afaict, the game incentivizes aurabots enough without making them also boost the payout of everything and MF is in the situation where most of the time people don't think about it much because its normally pretty much exclusively the domain of people who treat the game like a job or play it for their job, this league has made it very different by making MF entirely mainstream and warping the economy around it to a ridiculous margin, items you can't get while magic finding are up more than 3x over their standard prices on average and standard is infamous for having a horrifically overinflated economy for the vast majority of items.

If you think party bonus boosts your loot, think again.
You play solo - you get 100% of loot. YOu join with aurabot which gives you 20% bonus. Now you get 60% of the loot, because you need to split. Stop talking about situations where you have slave with you that is there only to boost your stats and gets nothing for it. Party bonus is nothing. The biggest diffrence between playing in party and playing solo is that aurabot allows your MF character to do much harder content w/o 10 mirorrs of investment.

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Aynix wrote:

If you think party bonus boosts your loot, think again.
You play solo - you get 100% of loot. YOu join with aurabot which gives you 20% bonus. Now you get 60% of the loot, because you need to split. Stop talking about situations where you have slave with you that is there only to boost your stats and gets nothing for it. Party bonus is nothing. The biggest diffrence between playing in party and playing solo is that aurabot allows your MF character to do much harder content w/o 10 mirorrs of investment.

Actually, the bonus per party member on currency is a quite significant 50%, with no diminush returns as party increases. Item quantity is what increases around 20%

Also, a big part of the equation is that party power scales a lot harder than monsters scale per party member, even without an aurabot, thus, it increases the level of juicing you can set while simultanously decreasing the time it takes to clear the content as the party grows

Even if you are on a level where you are mostly limited by walk speed because you clear super fast, partying allows you to get more content scaling not available otherwise. Its becomes basically another level of juice. The only situation where partying dont increase your currency/time rate is on a party where all members are on mirror-level(wich is easily averted, just enter another party with people offering leech services)

the thing to remember is that the devs actually really like MF as a concept and want it in their game.


a lot of times i see mf discussed its sort of can they remove it? will there be too much backlash? theres sometimes a presumption that mf is a problem, the devs know this hence the devs want to find a way to take it out.


they dont, they love mf and want it in their game, want it in poe2.










im a long term mf hater, i dont like the idea of making your character worse for more reward, i feel like making your character better gives you more rewards and that makes sense.

but, after years of hearing chris defend mf and shaking my head in a recent interview jonathan spoke about it. i guess he just worded it differently, he said he talked with chris about it and what they liked was that it gave a different vector for a character to be powerful. so its not just about damage, it stops the answer to the game always being more damage and gives you another competing avenue that you can go down to improve your character.

i found that interesting and i actually sort of 'got it' for the first time, im not sure im a born again convert but i can appreciate it more.



even if i buy into that idea, and sure i see the merits, the problem with our current MF is the way its implimented. they removed quant from rares and left it on uniques, and that means the uniques have now become an item set and for all the reasons an item set is horrible this current implementation of MF is horrible.






i quite like the idea going round of allowing item quantity to be a stat on gold rings and gold amulets, like the way bone rings can roll minion mods not in the normal pool. then get rid of quant from goldwyrms and sadimas. dont bring quant back on all rare gear, ditch it from existing on the boot and glove slot, keep the ventors rings but allow us to find rare gold rings that can roll with up to say 12% quant so we can get back to magic find builds being interesting. not this unique item set, items that can be upgraded, if you want to get rarity boots, gloves, hats etc cool, proper gear sets again like we used to have before quant was removed from rares.

Mf is not going anywhere