what happend to GGG?

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

but also be less considerate.

look what they did to mah boy.gif (looks at std)

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

Well it's an impossible argument isn't it? We don't know what PoE would look like without the Tencent acquisition because that's what happened. You can argue that the bulk of mtxes went up but maybe that was always going to be the case. Just as a simple example.

Which was exactly my point. There may well be a correlation between Tencent's acquisition and the evolution of MTX in PoE. I myself have said this. But there's no supporting evidence that it caused it.

On the other hand I can name games like Warframe that are Tencent-owned where people who played the game for years didn't even know it happened and it went unnoticed in terms of effect on the game. But when I ask for specific examples? That'd derail the thread somehow, when the entire point of the thread is to discuss "what happened to GGG?"

I'm on board with kuciol about opinions. You and I can have different opinions about a topic. However, the value of our opinion is worth only as much as it is informed. I may say the Earth is round because we can observe with the naked eye how ships disappear bottom up from sight as they make their way to that distant horizon. You may say the Earth is flat because the horizon looks flat. Both are correct observations, but only one is closer to the universal truth.

So I like to look at provable facts, because everything else is speculation. You may give more weight to one side of the argument due to personal bias for or against GGG and the persons speaking for either 'side' of this topic are known for where they plant their flags, but I'd at least appreciate if every participant to this could be clear on that.

"

exsea wrote:

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

but also be less considerate.

look what they did to mah boy.gif (looks at std)

GGG cured me of a lot of misconceptions, both about myself and others. A big one was the belief that during beta, I was content to play in what was then called legacy and would, going forward, ignore these gimmicky leagues and just play the core game. I mean, it had MORE than enough to keep me busy...

Then it became clear that legacy/Standard wasn't going to be some well-curated 'best of' version of the game and that league 'gimmicks' were, in fact, the de facto primary way of playing the game. And that legacy/Standard was far, far more volatile than a permanent mode should be.

I actually once cleared my standard stash on a random newbie -- and I knew they were both because they just kept *taking* whatever I threw at them. Felt good, but then a few leagues latter I realised I'd have to do it again and, well, there were far fewer random newbies stuck on standard by then.

So much of much. That's been PoE for far too long. And I'd be willing to bet at least a few of my admittedly dwindling brain cells that PoE 2 won't be anywhere near as haphazard with its permanent mode. A big part of why casuals bounce off PoE 1 is the notion that the de facto mode isn't stable or permanent at all. I really hope GGG figure out a way to make PoE 2 both dynamic for Constant Players, and reliable for the more casual types who might want to take some time off to...do whatever. Play other games or something. Go the gym more. Throw themselves into a job. Write a book. Yknow, whatever they want. People shouldn't be punished for that, but at the same time, I completely understand that devs of a GaaS need to think about the Constant Players too.

...GaaS really are at war with themselves most of the time. Sometimes I imagine a GaaS' inner monologue. "Am I a game? Am I just an excuse to sell mtxes? Should I be high quality, or high in content? Can I be both? Do I want to break my neck trying to please extremely demanding Constant Players, or strive to be a stable, reliable game people can take or leave?"

If games could have nervous breakdowns, I reckon the GaaS would be the prime type to do it.

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

Well it's an impossible argument isn't it? We don't know what PoE would look like without the Tencent acquisition because that's what happened. You can argue that the bulk of mtxes went up but maybe that was always going to be the case. Just as a simple example.

Which was exactly my point. There may well be a correlation between Tencent's acquisition and the evolution of MTX in PoE. I myself have said this. But there's no supporting evidence that it caused it.

On the other hand I can name games like Warframe that are Tencent-owned where people who played the game for years didn't even know it happened and it went unnoticed in terms of effect on the game. But when I ask for specific examples? That'd derail the thread somehow, when the entire point of the thread is to discuss "what happened to GGG?"

I'm on board with kuciol about opinions. You and I can have different opinions about a topic. However, the value of our opinion is worth only as much as it is informed. I may say the Earth is round because we can observe with the naked eye how ships disappear bottom up from sight as they make their way to that distant horizon. You may say the Earth is flat because the horizon looks flat. Both are correct observations, but only one is closer to the universal truth.

So I like to look at provable facts, because everything else is speculation. You may give more weight to one due to personal bias for or against GGG and the persons speaking for either 'side' of this topic are known for where they plant their flags, but I'd at least appreciate if we could be clear on that.

Closest I can come to a 'fact' re Tencent acquisitions is they have a history of not fucking with the geese that lay golden eggs.

I'm just thankful they've learned to stop trying to be a recognisable brand in the West. Ugh.

As for WF, Digital Extremes is owned by a...former Chinese chicken company (Leyou), the full acquisition of which by Tencent actually seemed like a big step up. but DE are just another goose laying golden eggs -- Tencent don't do fixer-uppers, they acquire solid investments.

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

Closest I can come to a 'fact' re Tencent acquisitions is they have a history of not fucking with the geese that lay golden eggs.

As for WF, Digital Extremes is owned by a...former Chinese chicken company (Leyou), the full acquisition of which by Tencent actually seemed like a big step up. but DE are just another goose laying golden eggs -- Tencent don't do fixer-uppers, they acquire solid investments.

Yup!

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

I'm just thankful they've learned to stop trying to be a recognisable brand in the West. Ugh.

Just like when Walmart tried to take over a part of the German consumer market segment by just copying what they were doing in the US. Comparing it to how that thing with the Titanic went isn't far off

Specifically, tencent pictures. NOT a good look when it's attached to movies made to be plot-light spectacle-heavy blockbusters in China but lacked the substance Western audiences expect of their blockbusters.

Either way, irrelevant here beyond pointing out they figured out it was best just to be quiet and let the money pour in. Same with game acquisitions.

I honestly think this thread peaked with exsea's statement. What happened to GGG? Tencent emboldened them as a company.

They were always passionate. Always taking risks. Always edgy in the oldschool sense. Always a dark horse. But whenever they tried to be bold as a company, it usually went badly (Garena, anyone?)...Tencent provided two things they'd wanted from the start: a big old welcome mat in a friggin' *huge* market that traditionally locked foreign interest out, and a safety net that very likely saw them safely through several years of rather rocky conditions. The stumble of ExileCon trying to solidify PoE's future as a forever-game -- THAT was bold, and I know there are some here who still haven't forgiven GGG for ceding conditions changed and made that plan unfeasible.

PoE 2 isn't striking me as the work of an emboldened company yet, more of a greatest hits victory lap. But I'm completely happy to wait and see if that changes.

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

GGG cured me of a lot of misconceptions, both about myself and others. A big one was the belief that during beta, I was content to play in what was then called legacy and would, going forward, ignore these gimmicky leagues and just play the core game. I mean, it had MORE than enough to keep me busy...

...GaaS really are at war with themselves most of the time. Sometimes I imagine a GaaS' inner monologue. "Am I a game? Am I just an excuse to sell mtxes? Should I be high quality, or high in content? Can I be both? Do I want to break my neck trying to please extremely demanding Constant Players, or strive to be a stable, reliable game people can take or leave?"

If games could have nervous breakdowns, I reckon the GaaS would be the prime type to do it.

i find it weird, i've been here since open beta. from my POV, legacy/standard was the "core"/"main" way to play the game as it was modelled after D2 where they only ever had standard.

from what i remember temp leagues have always been the "side content" but evolved to being the main content.

to me its fine for temp leagues to be the main content. i actually believe that GaaS can work. technically POE has always been a GaaS only thing is they didn't have a real gamepass until the introduction of kirac pass which was waaaaaay late into POE's life cycle.

i even find it weird that there are a number of forumers saying poe has always ever been about temp leagues. it makes me doubt if i misremembered the past as in my head, everything was always done for std/core. temp leagues exist in order to enrich std/core.

the sad thing is GGG's concept for temp leagues was ROCK SOLID. the way they sold the idea to players back then was solid.

if you played standard you were told that you would be able to amass wealth over the years and may have access to items "the way they were" on release. hence legacy items/uniques/mods. that was a huge reason to make players play poe early and play it long.

if you played temp leagues, you were told that you get to play on an even field where everyone started from scratch and experience new game mechanics that are not found on std. you were also told that during temp leagues you could earn unique temp league gear that MIGHT NOT MAKE IT TO CORE or get them the way they are on release (pre rebalancing).

this is the main reason why i, a std andy, finally decided to play temp leagues. i saw some items in the temp league that i wanted and usually dive into temp leagues like a special ops team that dives in to fulfill an objective and pull out.

its totally brilliant! both leagues had their charm/benefits.

but after the ten cent acquisition, thats where ggg started messing around with STD. exalt/divine switch. alt quality gems downgraded to normal. cluster jewel mods being retroactively changed rather than preserved as a legacy mod.

the way they handled perandus and prophecy really put me into distress. i've always farmed perandus coins so that "one day i will keep doing perandus". similarly i always pick up prophecy silver coins so that one day i'll keep rolling em to get valuable prophecies.

their removal came and gone without any easy way to reimburse us for our efforts.

could they have made perandus function like an expedition npc? could they have made it a way to reroll all prophecies with one click? the answer is yes. but its too much work and it only affects std players.

in fact, i would argue that they did not necessarily need to delete our prophecies or even remove navali. they could just keep her in game in std but disabled silver coins from dropping. as for perandus? they could make him into a std only npc and make him function similar to gheed/d4 gambling npc where you can just spend perandus coins to keep refreshing his inventory.

also we have sanctum and affliction leagues which were the first 2 leagues where they removed gear that directly improved their combat ability at the end of the game. thus rendering the "play temp league to bring items back into standard" point moot.

theres so many ways that GGG could have preserved the sanctity of std but they just chose not to.

it really feels like how in warhammer the emporer disposing his allies that served him in the beginning. loyalists what not but no longer had a place in the future he wanted to build.

cast aside. and not only that, spat on.

being on reddit/forums whenever i complain about game devs not caring about permanent league/realms its pretty common to get temp league andys coming over to spit on me just for playing perma league.

and all this started AFTER tencent's acquisition. so yeah they were emboldened.

its a shame really as GGG they really need to treat std the way they did. they could have kept the alt quality gems as legacy gems on std, they could have kept cluster jewel mods as legacy mods, they could even have had a temporary NPC allowing divines to be converted to exalts and vice versa for a few months on std.

but no. its extra work and we dont deserve it.

its one of the many reasons i gave up on poe1 and would never touch it again moving forward.

games becoming GaaS can work. TLI is based around temp leagues. LE did not necessarily start of as a seasonal game but their cycles really show much love towards standard players. both those games dont mess around with standard. for TLI it's especially considerate as the game is even marketed to be a seasonal game first and foremost yet their seasonal content is designed in a way it doesnt interfere with std and in fact closely resembles how poe originally designed temp leagues.

i do agree that poe2 is more of a victory lap. tho i do hope they put more love into preserving the sanctity of standard there.

Every time I see you go off, exsea, I just want to give you a hug and say 'it's okay, everything will be fine, I promise'. I'd be lying, of course, but we both need to believe that lie. This is a lot of energy to put into a game neither of us need or even really, really want in our lives.

maybe my coffee was just too strong this morning

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

Every time I see you go off, exsea, I just want to give you a hug and say 'it's okay, everything will be fine, I promise'. I'd be lying, of course, but we both need to believe that lie. This is a lot of energy to put into a game neither of us need or even really, really want in our lives.

maybe my coffee was just too strong this morning

sigh. true.

my close friends tell me that my relationship with GGG is akin a toxic gf.

but i cant find a different gf. shes still the best gf ever. she does that thing with dangly bits in a way no one else does so all i can do is hopes she starts treating me better.

*proceeds to OD on hopium*

"

exsea wrote:

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

Every time I see you go off, exsea, I just want to give you a hug and say 'it's okay, everything will be fine, I promise'. I'd be lying, of course, but we both need to believe that lie. This is a lot of energy to put into a game neither of us need or even really, really want in our lives.

maybe my coffee was just too strong this morning

sigh. true.

my close friends tell me that my relationship with GGG is akin a toxic gf.

but i cant find a different gf. shes still the best gf ever. she does that thing with dangly bits in a way no one else does so all i can do is hopes she starts treating me better.

*proceeds to OD on hopium*

Be thankful you didn't spend as much on Her as I did.

(disclaimer: still no regrets. Had a wild ride. Doesn't mean I can't say 'DONT DO IT' to anyone else.)