GGG is constantly limited due to Group Magic Find...

Balancing group play rewards is problem in all arpg games I think. My opinion is it should be as close to solo play as possible, but since it's impossible to do, they should always err on the side solo play being more efficient, and group play approaching that as closely as they can replicate. I don't think it's a major problem in POE, because 1. most people don't play in groups and 2. there is a solo self found mode.

I've seen a lot of busted mechanics in group play happening though, that seem a long way in excess what would be possible solo. Magic find mechanic has a bit to do with it as well, but it is multiple factors. I would like if they could improve co-op play so it was more playable technically. Its one of the few things in this game that is inferior to most other games. If you want to play with someone in another region it's almost unplayable. Even on good latency the game is not really built for a group play experience. From the small amount of casual group play I've played, it seems much less efficient to just randomly group. Obviously this is not the case once it is optimized, and there are some mechanics, like legion, where grouping is extremely powerful. I don't think there should be a situation where something like this is the fastest way to level. Overall, I don't think its a major problem, but if it's magnitudes more efficient to group, it begins to feel mandatory to group, particularly if you are competing in an economy. This would probably be a much bigger issue if group play was smoother, I think a lot more people would be doing it, or feel pressured to do it. Probably why part of why a lot of people play SSF, but there are many people who want to play solo in trade and not feel they have a handicap, beyond all the other factors like trading communities etc.. There are downsides to playing in groups, anyone who has been part of one knows of these, particularly there is less flexibility and can be a lot of time wasted. So long as both are in the same ball park, and development looks to keep them at a similar level, particularly not have group play multiple times stronger than solo, I think it is fine. I don't have any information in which is better, other than I suspect there is a much higher peak for group play with some of the synergy that is available.

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no need for a separate league just nerf group drops.

group will exist for those wanting to quickly lvl up or trivialize content while solo playing will be better for farming currency and rewards.

I don't think its quite that easy. It's an exponential thing, so it would need to be nerferd exponentially, and that becomes complex. I think there is already some penalties for drops in group play? They don't overcome the exponential synergy that is available.

Also not sure how big the gap is, if there is one at all. I would expect there is a decent gap at the top end, but I really don't know. I think group play probably effects the economy less than some other factors, like for example use of other platforms for trading than the trade site, discord, tft etc. Only assumptions. I don't play that much trade league in POE. I don't know what percentage of players play in groups.

stop crying about aspects of the game that people like, and enjoy the game on your own terms, it's not a competetion, really need to get over yourself

Circle of Fortune guild in Last Epoch SOLVED magic find , GGG should copy this because the old traditional MF is Trash!

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Pashid wrote:

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zakalwe55 wrote:

True? Source?

Own gameplay experience across multiple leagues with and without party play.

Oh, I was hoping someone would/could point out a solo streamer that consistently makes 1/6 of what Empyrian's group makes. Solo streamers love showing off their best loot explosions too. It should be easy to compare solo vs group loot explosions. Solo streamers with 20,000 + hours in POE vs group streamers with 20,000+ hours in POE.

I don't count anon profile players as a source of anything. Too many blatant liars on these forums. I want Youtube recordings.

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zakalwe55 wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

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zakalwe55 wrote:

True? Source?

Own gameplay experience across multiple leagues with and without party play.

Oh, I was hoping someone would/could point out a solo streamer that consistently makes 1/6 of what Empyrian's group makes.

https://m.youtube.com/@snoobae8553

Topic: Magic Find is fine. No one is stopping anyone from getting good, grouping up and making cash. Or go hard solo like the person I just linked.

People need to keep their fomo in check and stop comparing the average Joe against the 1% that either play and optimize this game for a living or have nothing but PoE going for them.

Leave the numbers to the professionals, I trust GGG more than people who claim to have X characters at 90+ without having seen single divine.

Diablo 2 handled this the best I think.

Regular monsters can drop either 0 or 1 items.
Unique monsters always drop 2 magic (or better) items.

Adding more players to the party resulted in much more loot dropping, but this was accomplished by manipulating the odds for this "empty" drop (0 items).

For example with 1 player monster has say 80% chance to drop nothing.
With 8 players monster has only about 5% chance to drop nothing - most monsters will drop an item.

But it is one item. Not 5, not 10, not a fucking lootsplosion of 400 items off one rare. It will never be out of control overpowered.

Quantity on MF (any type, party or solo) is the biggest mistake GGG ever made.
MF was always about increasing the quality of items you dropped, not showering you with more trash, to brute-force these better items through sheer numbers.

Any opinions with which profit adherents do not agree are equated to whining. Their arguments are "if you are homeless - just buy a house lol" and "peoples like it." So ridiculous.

Many old players are nostalgic for the times of true variety of builds and adequate economics. At times, until came the mainstream of farming a.k.a “Mirror in 3 days or a noob?”, “20 divs per hour and other profitable types of farming”, “this build for 10 divs will kill any Uberboss on the first day of the league.”

Gamblers whose progress scale consists only of currency that they have nowhere to spend. Which discard 99% of gaming content because it is less profitable. Those who are ready to tear their hair out because of the nerf of MF and the removal of goblin loot.

That's the real problem. These are players for whom PoE is not an ARPG, but a simple 3D clicker.

When something is said against them, they equate it with whining. When they whine about any negative changes in farming, about an unprofitable league or farm fixes, this is, in their understanding, constructive feedback.

It is very difficult to sit on both chairs. Therefore, the witnesses of the profit will remain in PoE 1, continue to farm each league and gamble with what they have farmed. And fans of the ARPG genre will go to PoE 2 to enjoy the gameplay, music, visuals and even lore.

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moonretealoud wrote:

Any opinions with which profit adherents do not agree are equated to whining. Their arguments are "if you are homeless - just buy a house lol" and "peoples like it." So ridiculous.

Many old players are nostalgic for the times of true variety of builds and adequate economics. At times, until came the mainstream of farming a.k.a “Mirror in 3 days or a noob?”, “20 divs per hour and other profitable types of farming”, “this build for 10 divs will kill any Uberboss on the first day of the league.”

Gamblers whose progress scale consists only of currency that they have nowhere to spend. Which discard 99% of gaming content because it is less profitable. Those who are ready to tear their hair out because of the nerf of MF and the removal of goblin loot.

That's the real problem. These are players for whom PoE is not an ARPG, but a simple 3D clicker.

When something is said against them, they equate it with whining. When they whine about any negative changes in farming, about an unprofitable league or farm fixes, this is, in their understanding, constructive feedback.

It is very difficult to sit on both chairs. Therefore, the witnesses of the profit will remain in PoE 1, continue to farm each league and gamble with what they have farmed. And fans of the ARPG genre will go to PoE 2 to enjoy the gameplay, music, visuals and even lore.

PoE1 is going down the drain, its nearly unplayable anymore with other people.

and PoE2 is going to somehow be any better? I severely doubt if they let things get this bad in PoE1 that they are going to take good care of PoE2.

All i see is an attempt to sell twice as many launch-packs and mystery boxes.

Edit: and on the main topic here, MF isn't so broken as GGG needs to institute limits or rework the rarity/quantity system entirely, Its a wonderful idea that you can equip some gear generally with some bad stats to help you and your friends get better drops, it feels great and its why it is one of my favorite all time builds in the game.

Back in the day when i joined a party there was still etiquette (not to mention my brand new GPU wasn't frying a week after i got it) i would tell the party that i was a rarefinder and they would be happy, loot wasn't (pickup and you're kicked!) no people actually just looted normally heck even sometimes people would split big drops and as i've played the game i try to preach (split the big stuff) and it makes the game better.

The problem isn't so much MF as much as it is purely people looking to exploit literally anything they can in most cases to sell for real money where as most of the player base is just trying to have fun in the game whatever that means for them.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

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moonretealoud wrote:

Any opinions with which profit adherents do not agree are equated to whining. Their arguments are "if you are homeless - just buy a house lol" and "peoples like it." So ridiculous.

Many old players are nostalgic for the times of true variety of builds and adequate economics. At times, until came the mainstream of farming a.k.a “Mirror in 3 days or a noob?”, “20 divs per hour and other profitable types of farming”, “this build for 10 divs will kill any Uberboss on the first day of the league.”

Gamblers whose progress scale consists only of currency that they have nowhere to spend. Which discard 99% of gaming content because it is less profitable. Those who are ready to tear their hair out because of the nerf of MF and the removal of goblin loot.

That's the real problem. These are players for whom PoE is not an ARPG, but a simple 3D clicker.

When something is said against them, they equate it with whining. When they whine about any negative changes in farming, about an unprofitable league or farm fixes, this is, in their understanding, constructive feedback.

It is very difficult to sit on both chairs. Therefore, the witnesses of the profit will remain in PoE 1, continue to farm each league and gamble with what they have farmed. And fans of the ARPG genre will go to PoE 2 to enjoy the gameplay, music, visuals and even lore.

PoE1 is going down the drain, its nearly unplayable anymore with other people.

and PoE2 is going to somehow be any better? I severely doubt if they let things get this bad in PoE1 that they are going to take good care of PoE2.

All i see is an attempt to sell twice as many launch-packs and mystery boxes.

5+ years of developing a game in order to sell more support packages. Yes, you are a genius!
Who even cares about the phrase “support package”? GGG could offer not 2 but 4 seasonal support packs, and not with 3 tiers but at least 20. This does not matter, since “support” is given to what deserves support. You won't buy something you won't use, that is, won't play with.
Every time I die from cringe when I see people who think that GGG is developing a game ONLY for the sake of money.

As for the party play in PoE 2. I suggest you first wait, see, and only then throw out statements.
I have great hopes for PoE 2, since it was stated that there will be no MF in PoE 2. And also that most of the mistakes will not be made in the game, because they deliberately decided to make game separate, so as not to be limited by the framework and failures of PoE 1.

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moonretealoud wrote:

5+ years of developing a game in order to sell more support packages. Yes, you are a genius!
Who even cares about the phrase “support package”? GGG could offer not 2 but 4 seasonal support packs, and not with 3 tiers but at least 20. This does not matter, since “support” is given to what deserves support. You won't buy something you won't use, that is, won't play with.
Every time I die from cringe when I see people who think that GGG is developing a game ONLY for the sake of money.

As for the party play in PoE 2. I suggest you first wait, see, and only then throw out statements.
I have great hopes for PoE 2, since it was stated that there will be no MF in PoE 2. And also that most of the mistakes will not be made in the game, because they deliberately decided to make game separate, so as not to be limited by the framework and failures of PoE 1.

When you ask for support to develop a specific product and then after years of development change the product without telling anyone.

I shall for now be upset with GGG for that, Perhaps they turn things around in the future but with the state of the game getting exceedingly worse with every patch what am i supposed to say to GGG other than the truth or my perspective on it.

edit: and again on the MF stuff, GGG is 100000% at fault for letting item-quantity become as powerful as it is, they never tied it into rarity like it should be which gives both sides disadvantages for trying to reach too high item-quant or item-rarity it starts to fall off but the current setup it has if nothing else appreciating-gains.


I'm a huge MF/RF/finder fan, so many builds made over the years but this game has been turned into a solo game, the party mechanics fallen to the side if you can EVEN SEE ANYTHING because of MTX which you are punished for buying now if your friends arent on a super-computer you basically have to take them off or play alone.