The transition from CW to Mark & Jonathan is complete - This is a buff
" Exactly. Only a currency AH, and only for this league. In ggg's newest video they stated gold for trading in the near endgame will be trivial. Bots can run T16's just fine. Because infinite bots can be made for free, bypassing the amount of orders restrictions, and getting gold will be trivial, currently I'm betting that botting takes over the entire currency market this league. Yes, you can't set fake prices with the system. The problem is that was never really the issue. The issue is cornering a market on rare currency. Now a bot farm can buy up every popular conq exalt for example in seconds and flip - no more 'friction' in having to trade normally. Last edited by Bleu42 on Jul 22, 2024, 3:47:18 AM
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I have huge respect for Chris and loved him as the face of PoE and was a bit sad seeing him 'gone' (from live streams). But seeing how much work Mark has pumped in starting with many QoLs and ending with massive content changes, I'm just starting to question if maybe Chris had too many other obligations in the company and was not able to put undivided attention into PoE design. Either way Mark seems very passionate about the game and tries making it better even if making some mistakes along the way, and I'm happy that he took over.
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" I think this is minimizing what Mark said at best, and at worst it's a total misrepresentation of what they intend to do with this system. They fully plan to include all items if this system works well. The currency is in fact a test, since there is a decent amount of sinks, and the league format allows for a temporary impact should things go south. Listen, an AH (PoE version) is coming, thankfully, with full asynchronous trade. I have little doubt after listening to the live stream. I recommend anyone to listen to it. Fortunately it's right at the beginning, one of the first items they address. Also it's worth noting that PoE2 already has this in place. Granted the game & economy will be different, but the tech and systems are there. Personally speaking I think the benefits outweigh the risks in the scope of the entire playerbase. Will there be some shenanigans with some rich guilds? Maybe. But I wouldn't toss out the baby with the bathwater. And GGG will know who is abusing the system if that happens. This is a big win for players imo. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44 on Jul 22, 2024, 9:15:32 AM
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" Honestly, I really like this 'experimental' approach and stating from the get-go that it's an experiment as opposed to stubbornly refusing to even try something because 'they know better' or stubbornly not removing something bad from the game until big player outrage happens - hello, Archnemesis mods. By experimentation we'll have a 'definite' proof if the feature fits the game and if it's good/bad for the game instead of just guessing. | |
" They actually stated that the gold cost of the AH should be trivial for everyone mapping. Its in the video that the cost is there to prevent using the AH for story mode, but for someone mapping, the cost is balanced to be effectively not there, so saying that bots will dominate the system because the gold fee is going direct counter to what they said. As for the 10 orders limit, they said its an experimental limit that could change mid-league(and it almost certainly will, limit of 10 isnt enought to even just lists all deafening essences or all fossils, and thats not mentioning scarabs) And if you said fake prices are not an issue, you must be playing a different game from everyone else... now, market cornering of hinekoras or mirrors, THATS something that wouldnt be an issue. And im very skeptical of someone buyng every divine on the market, divines are not that rare, maybe they could corner dominations and thats a very big maybe, hardcore crafters also tend to be very rich | |
" I can see this, and on one hand I can agree with it. On the other hand, Grinding Gear has been leery of doing this for ten years running now for an extremely good reason. People like to meme on the Trade manifesto, but just this last week we heard about people generating a hundred thousand uniques in a single map - and not even through malicious abuse, just through supreme edge-case jankery that most definitely qualifies as abuse in the spirit of the word, if not the letter of it. Turning over pretty much literally the entire economy of the game to fewer than one hundred individuals already caused severe problems when there was still friction in trade. The idea of a fully automated asynchronous trade system should be treated as the quite possibly game-ending pathogen corruption it very well might be. Ultra-high-volume trading already warps the economy of the game out of all measure through TFT alone. If the number of no-lifers participating in ultra-high-volume trading increases a hundredfold, the rest of us may as well just play SSF because there will be no actual point whatsoever in pretending we haven't been cut out of the in-game trade economy completely. Anyone playing the game "normally"/intuitively, and not using any of the incredibly jank methods UHV trade people use to manipulate the game, gets to just...not participate. I am hoping Grinding Gear has found solutions for this, but that doesn't mean I'm not at least a little apprehensive over what new strategies market manipulators, flippers, UHV people, and the rest will concoct and enact to strip the average player of any chance whatsoever to actually make meaningful trades to improve their character. It's a lot easier to implement this sort of system in an entirely new game with an undefined economy which will be built to accommodate and control this sort of crap from the outset; backhacking it into Path the First runs the extremely real risk of simply blowing the game up completely. We can hope it doesn't. But I'm also really hoping that gold cost starts becoming aligned with character level/progression and stops being "trivial" real damn quick, and that they remember it needs to be dramatically higher for gear than it does for currency intended to be bought in (reasonable) bulk. | |
" What reason exactly? In my view it's unrealized, unfounded, fear. Mark is far more willing to take risks to make it better than CW was. Settling for the horrific systems in place now, is no way to advance the game, or appeal to a wider range of players. Mark understands this. Not only that, but when the Trade Manifesto was written, we didn't have all the 3rd party tools, websites, and discords that we have now. GGG was working from behind on this, and I for one am glad they are trying to recapture their own power here. GGG were far too stubborn, and unwilling to adapt to the new gaming realities. Will an asynchronous system be perfect? No. Will some rich players try and "manipulate" the system? Maybe. Should they do nothing because they are afraid of a few bad actors? Absolutely not. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
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" Like I said, I get it. I concur that something needs to be done, the current system is growing untenable. But man - they jumped right past simply removing a few barriers to a fully asynchronous, almost completely automated system. Yeah, third-party tools exist, but the overwhelming majority of the game's playerbase doesn't use them. People forget that the thousand-odd diehard forumites here are the deepest of the deep invested; what they consider obvious and necessary tools, the average PoE player often doesn't even know about and would consider an annoying and frustrating nuisance if they did. Put this stuff in the game? Its use increases a thousandfold. Suddenly everybody lets to do it instead of the miniscule few who dig deep enough to find all the third-party tools and train themselves in those tools' use. People say "good, that means everybody can make more money!", but the reality is that it simply opens up the entire playerbase to be preyed upon by the 'elite' few. Again - fewer than a hundred people were dictating the entire economy of Necropolis League. Grinding Gear should not do nothing because of a few bad actors, no...but the assumption that "a few bad actors" are inconsequential to the whole is a baffling myth. Apparently it takes fewer than a hundred people to irrevocably warp and destroy an economy. Is there a possible future where, say, twenty or so "bad actors" manage to corner GGG's new asynchronous trade systems to the active detriment of every other player in the game? Absolutely there is, and due caution should be exercised to try and avoid that future. The thing to remember is that every single time one player gets richer, another player gets poorer. Path of Exile was supposed to be a game about making interesting build decisions and experimenting with mechanics to try and create a character that's both powerful and effective, and uniquely yours. it has not been that game in a very long time. Not unless you play the Market Minigame first to accrue the nigh-infinite wealth that is the bar to being able to play that "interesting build decisions" game. When fifty to one hundred divines is considered "low budget", the game has honestly failed, and I don't see this new trend towards fully asynchronous trading fixing that. PoE2 stands a good chance of doing so; Path the First is already pretty much a lost cause. Sadly. | |
" Actually, the fact they decide to give it a try and step away from the manifesto telegraphs that the "extremely good reasons" might be already defeated. At least, both the reasons given in the manifesto: Drop rates and market-manipulation, are both dead for some time now The abuse of hundreds of uniqs per map was not at all related to trade attrition, they straight up admited it was just logical conclusion of the multiplicative reward system in place(also, if you think about it, it might have been BENEFITIAL to most players, as what the abuse caused was a price decrease on t0 uniques), and yes, they are working on it, the removal of item quantity is a step on that direction, and they mentioned they are working on tweaking the multiplicative nature of juicing to become less extreme on both ends. Its another old complaint separate from trade attrition: Game is extremely unrewarding when played on "base" state but becomes extremely bonkers if you play focusing in a handful of content As for casuals not participating... well it kinda goes back to how the points behind trade attrition might be dead: Casuals are already not participating on the market, as it already is firmly dominated by no-lifers. Casuals have no say on the price of any base or special currencies as it is, so for the 99% its likely nothing will change, except no longer need to wisp a dozen times to exchange orbs | |
" What I said was factually true. It's only for this upcoming league. It's not in SSF nor is it for standard. My sentence didn't minimize or misrepresent anything, it was a statement of fact. Last edited by Bleu42 on Jul 22, 2024, 2:24:09 PM
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