death penalty, race to 100: philosophical conflicts?
" ah yes, i remember it like yesterday. i had to over level my character in the docks before i open my first map! skele totem in one hand and 60 hp nodes in the other. such was the short life of a HC player |
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I'm a staunch defender of the XP penalty. I believe in the need for meaningful punishment when you die. But I do see where Snorkle is coming from and don't disagree with those points. If the new norm is that dying a lot basically locks you out of high level/valuable content, then that itself is a good enough punishment in my eyes. If there is no point where you have so many possible continuation points that you could just afford to die every other map, then that is artificially an xp penalty in itself (as you are forced to do much lower content when your atlas resets).
Don't get me wrong, I personally would love to keep the xp penalty. But if this new design means there's already a ton of punishment for deaths, then I'm fine with them doing away with it. |
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Read most of this and my take is I am 100% fine with…
Xp penalty, Boss resetting (think that bosses are tactical and we need to learn and act is a positive) Even happy with the one portal issue as an option like SSF is. What I am not happy with is one portal in solo play in softcore and been posting here about it my “ PoE2: One death in map and its bricked.” thread It’s a good idea and would love to be able to pick it as an extra tier of difficulty but not as a default to normal softcore Last edited by Timbo Zero#8289 on Nov 25, 2024, 1:15:35 PM
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" I disagree with this, for the exact same reason you just spelled out. "Penalties = 95% of skills unused" is the bellwether that people keep saying is going to happen.....only for that never to be the case. The vast, vast, vast, vast majority of players do not compete for fastest times, or highest div/hr, or <insertclassicexcusehere>.....these things are generally true for such a small fraction of the game. You claim this is "still PoE", still the same people etc. We have thousands of builds in existence, we have players utilizing nearly every single skill the game has to offer right now. It really doesn't even matter that there is a "meta"....there will always be players that play at their own pace, with their own favorite skill. And hefty penalties will do nothing to change that, because they already don't. If the veteran players continue to tell others that "95% of skills and builds are not playable because they are 20% slower/more expensive than y build".....they are the problem. It is certainly not the game or any form of death penalty. That is the thinking of a jaded player who has done this thousands of times and is only interested in being "faster, faster faster". Well.....there is a heck of a lot more to PoE than speed. Yes, that includes PoE 1 and it will be ever more true in PoE 2. Last edited by cowmoo275#3095 on Nov 25, 2024, 1:59:27 PM
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" So if you want to say its not worth responding to, then you didnt need to post at me. A bit redundant. My response has everything to do with your thread. And your main point here: " To which I replied: " It seems you just want an echo chamber of people agreeing with you? Rather than any retractors? My response is completely on topic. Make sure this is an open discussion on the forums, and not a closed one. Thank you! Mash the clean
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" lol have you even played on HC back in the day? vast majority of skills were not utilized. at all, well maybe with totems. and even later speed was survability here because its who taps who first. only recently we get these tanky builds that can face tank most maps (we got few broken builds prior to that but it was rare). you talking about speed meta like its not part of the design in ritual/breach etc... and guess which league mechanics made it into poe2? lol |
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The initial premise of "we need steep penalty because without it people will reach max level while dying 1000 times" is fundamentally flawed logic. Soulslike games still can be "fully completed" after dying lots of times as part of the learning curve. Arpgs including poe have neither completion (infinite grind), nor a linear learning curve, poe1 progression is full of unpredictable difficulty spikes and big rng fluctuations. Here dying isn't learning, it is underhanded tactics to keep people in the game longer. And to exploit pride of certain small subset of players.
Now without such motive, why should developers care about how people choose to experience their game? If someone doesn't want to dig for one of 5% unkillable gimmicks, who do they hurt, exactly? Is their money worse than others? There are already inherent rewards for those who die less on average, along with other death penalties (losing portals to aspiration content and having to do grind loop again). People who consider never dying important will always find ways to track this information without looking at others character level. |
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" Uhhh dying is definitely learning in this game. Its up to the player should they choose to learn from it or not though. For example this player in the bottom left, who will remain unamed, seen dying to a chaos beam with negative chaos resistance decided to get hit by the mechanic.  Its up to them whether they learn from this mechanic and try a different approach. Or continue to struggle, and hypothetically blame it on something unrelated. Like a phys one shot. Mash the clean
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I really don't understand those people that are suggesting on removing death penalty. If you like POE so much that you don't want to play D4, make an effort to learn how build works and what combinations of mods are dangerous to what map you're running. When GGG announced 3.25 was extended, I decided to get the portal mtx. Took me 1 week and a few days to get it done and considering how hard the trade is at this stage of the league.
You don't want to make an effort to be good and now, you suggest things that will be convenient for you and didn't consider other people's wants? I mean if you can't even see what's wrong with this then no understanding will be made. You said it yourself, they want more audience and yet they have not change the death penalty all these years. Maybe its time to read between the lines? Last edited by iMirageX#4580 on Nov 25, 2024, 8:56:46 PM
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" HC is not really worth mentioning....it is a special beast with its own set of rules. None of these "death penalties" are anywhere remotely near Perma-death HC. And no....once again I disagree with your assertion. Those who truly enjoy HC don't play the same single build every time they play HC: they try tons of DIFFERENT builds to see how far they can get. You might be right in terms of leaderboards, but not overall skill usage. Once again.....a very very small percentage of players, even amongst the already very small HC community. You cannot, absolutely cannot, have a discussion on death penalties while including HC in the mix. A penalty implies an "after" whereas the entire mode of HC IS the death. Its not a penalty, its just instant game over. The whole playstyle is centered around not dying, because there is no "after death". Whereas non-hardcore is centered around expecting to die, and what you do after it happens. |
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