1)monster density.
2)screen clearing abilities, spammy abilities and the like.
Both of these make visual clarity impossible.
Anyone that doesn't realize this extremely basic thing but still wants the gameplay to continue like this is fricked in the head.
The only way you could have visual clarity in this mess would be if spells and monster abilities literally had no visuals at all and you'd see only glowing outlines of their radius.
We have to address the root causes otherwise what are we even doing here.
I disagree. When talking in terms of the overall fidelity of the game traditional combat pacing becomes something that is not relevant in the late game.
In the late game, the game changes from traditional combat pacing to powerful builds and things that can kill them. It is not about engaging with every enemy on some separate level, it is more about avoiding the more dangerous area denial and debuff effects that your build cannot mitigate.
Traditional combat pacing is good to talk about in campaign and early prog, but in the late game we more wanna talk about how to mitigate issues that are inherent to the design through features like dynamic culling, and through mechanics that can interact with more powerful players.
Slowing down the pace of the game from the top down just presents the same issue from a different baseline. Everyone's perfect version of the game is different, and certain people/ groups will have this pacing issue regardless.
It can be a well crafted intentionally paced experience through the campaign and early prog, and then people can become powerful, kill a lot of monsters, and find insane items. To me, that is the best spot for the game to be in, and GGG should balance around the people that want to run the repeatable content for a long time on strong characters by just adding QOL for the effects on our screen, like a culling option for party members in multiplayer, like cleaning up some effects such as delirium and abyss modifiers, and like the changes they are already making in 0.3.1
I disagree. When talking in terms of the overall fidelity of the game traditional combat pacing becomes something that is not relevant in the late game.
In the late game, the game changes from traditional combat pacing to powerful builds and things that can kill them. It is not about engaging with every enemy on some separate level, it is more about avoiding the more dangerous area denial and debuff effects that your build cannot mitigate.
Traditional combat pacing is good to talk about in campaign and early prog, but in the late game we more wanna talk about how to mitigate issues that are inherent to the design through features like dynamic culling, and through mechanics that can interact with more powerful players.
Slowing down the pace of the game from the top down just presents the same issue from a different baseline. Everyone's perfect version of the game is different, and certain people/ groups will have this pacing issue regardless.
It can be a well crafted intentionally paced experience through the campaign and early prog, and then people can become powerful, kill a lot of monsters, and find insane items. To me, that is the best spot for the game to be in, and GGG should balance around the people that want to run the repeatable content for a long time on strong characters by just adding QOL for the effects on our screen, like a culling option for party members in multiplayer, like cleaning up some effects such as delirium and abyss modifiers, and like the changes they are already making in 0.3.1
I disagree blah blah blah... yeah, ok, fix me this:
How do you fix these buddy? Not even party play here and it's this bad. In what world could those ever have visual clarity?
You have no business talking about visual clarity when you want this style of gameplay.
How about a visual update to the skill to make parts of it more transparent and clean up the effect a bit, or an update to dynamic culling so it starts removing some of the clutter at lower fps? :^)
Last edited by AverBeg7#1689 on Sep 30, 2025, 12:14:56 PM
How about a visual update to the skill to make parts of it more transparent and clean up the effect a bit, or an update to dynamic culling so it starts removing some of the clutter at lower fps? :^)
What a genius! More transparent! Let's see how that works out.
No transparency:
50% transparency:
Oh wow, it just makes everything look worse and I still can't see shit.. what a surprise 😲😲
10% transparency:
Can barely see the skill but still looks shitty.. woah I am so shocked 🤯
Oh I know ... let's just remove all skill and spell effects instead of FIXING THE ROOT CAUSES. And put some indicators for effects on ground like that so we know where the skills do things since we have no animations/visual indicators for them anymore and we're done. Oh make everything have a highlight on their border too just in case you can't see what the screen FILLED with monsters do. You know, those monsters that each throw shit at you individually as well as having their own on death effects and whatnot.
WOAHHH WE FIXED THE GAME... now it looks like SHIT. WOHOO
Also "dynamic culling so it starts removing some of the clutter at lower fps"... this statement alone is so incredibly dumb... what does this fix for people with rigs that can handle all that clutter? Suddenly it's fine for someone with a high end pc to have no visual clarity with this logic...
You just can't make this stuff up...
"Sigh"
Last edited by IonSugeRau1#1069 on Sep 30, 2025, 4:38:39 AM
How about a visual update to the skill to make parts of it more transparent and clean up the effect a bit, or an update to dynamic culling so it starts removing some of the clutter at lower fps? :^)
What a genius! More transparent! Let's see how that works out.
No transparency:
50% transparency:
Oh wow, it just makes everything look worse and I still can't see shit.. what a surprise 😲😲
10% transparency:
Can barely see the skill but still looks shitty.. woah I am so shocked 🤯
Oh I know ... let's just remove all skill and spell effects instead of FIXING THE ROOT CAUSES. And put some indicators for effects on ground like that so we know where the skills do things since we have no animations/visual indicators for them anymore and we're done. Oh make everything have a highlight on their border too just in case you can't see what the screen FILLED with monsters do. You know, those monsters that each throw shit at you individually as well as having their own on death effects and whatnot.
WOAHHH WE FIXED THE GAME... now it looks like SHIT. WOHOO
Also "dynamic culling so it starts removing some of the clutter at lower fps"... this statement alone is so incredibly dumb... what does this fix for people with rigs that can handle all that clutter? Suddenly it's fine for someone with a high end pc to have no visual clarity with this logic...
You just can't make this stuff up...
Of course there are ways to do it more subtle than that, and how do you think people currently handle late game?
Most beast rigs run the game at like 50fps in juiced content, and dynamic culling goes above that if you want. We are all using it to play the game. People like to have the option to scale their skills and blast. There is plenty of actual combat to pace already in the campaign and early prog.
Just using my skill on the settings I have puts me under dynamic culling fps and lets me see clearly around it on a mid-level rig;
As you can see, when it gets insane (I dip below 70fps) it culls the more obtrusive effects and renders the more transparent ones. It still feels great to play. I get the impact of the big boom at the beginning but it does not fill my screen one thousand times or tax my framerate as much, it's nice.
Improvements to late game could be:
Say Abyss Monsters effects got cleaned up a little, people could probably see the degen when they need to.
Say, in options there is an option for your party members abilities to always be culled like mine above looks on sub 70fps, just to turn on when you were in a party with multiple builds popping off. People would probably enjoy playing together more.
Say, all of the skills had a nice middleground like this that does not chew up performance/ fill your screen and it was more reliable than the current culling system. We could toggle that on and see with any ability scaled to any crazy amount.
Say, delirium was a bit more clean, people probably wouldn't be as annoyed that it's basically a chisel and required late game.
Not a bad game we're talking about here for the people that actually play lategame, right?
Last edited by AverBeg7#1689 on Sep 30, 2025, 9:51:25 AM
Of course there are ways to do it more subtle than that, and how do you think people currently handle late game?
Most beast rigs run the game at like 50fps in juiced content, and dynamic culling goes above that if you want. We are all using it to play the game. People like to have the option to scale their skills and blast. There is plenty of actual combat to pace already in the campaign and early prog.
Just using my skill on the settings I have puts me under dynamic culling fps and lets me see clearly around it on a mid-level rig;
I get the impact of the big boom at the beginning but it does not fill my screen one thousand times or tax my framerate as much, it's nice.
Why do I even bother...
You know what? Keep dreaming of that visual clarity you ask of... you know, the one they never managed to achieve for over 12 years in PoE1 (which has worse graphical effects by the way, because of it's age).... because god knows why, right? Certainly not because of a sea of monsters and spammy abilities that fill the whole screen! Who could tell why they couldn't achieve that?... mystery!
Why stop there though, add some finishing effects MTX to it too, to make it all better ;D
"Sigh"
Last edited by IonSugeRau1#1069 on Sep 30, 2025, 9:22:21 AM
Just using my skill on the settings I have puts me under dynamic culling fps and lets me see clearly around it on a mid-level rig;
I get the impact of the big boom at the beginning but it does not fill my screen one thousand times or tax my framerate as much, it's nice.
Why do I even bother...
Nobody knows why you do. When you just give the most blatantly cherry-picked examples, in the most cursed scenario you can find, with a terrible item filter, and no dynamic culling on, you are just completely misrepresenting your own experience and posting inflammatory content, and the only people it is not obvious to are people that do not even play the late game. Which is not really the target audience you have to win over here.
Nobody knows why you do. When you just give the most blatantly cherry-picked examples, in the most cursed scenario you can find, with a terrible item filter, and no dynamic culling on, you are just completely misrepresenting your own experience and posting inflammatory content, and the only people it is not obvious to are people that do not even play the late game. Which is not really the target audience you have to win over here.
Nice, missed my whole reply except for that starting phrase. Amazing!
"Cherry picked" .. you know what's funny.. now you're talking like visibility is not actually an issue anymore. Nice! It's not a problem guys.. this guy fixed it for you with dynamic culling and an item filter (btw I never talked about items, but you are right that those are bad too and item filters are not something the game provides by itself... but more then that... it wasn't supposed to be an issue in PoE2... that being said, it wasn't the object of discussion here at all).
The 3 or 4 different threads I saw complaining about visibility just this past week? Pfft.. cherry picked, no problem! Put dynamic culling on and you're good to go!
As to why I really bother?... I hope more people realize that 1 + 1 = 2 and start thinking about the real problems behind everything.
"Sigh"
Last edited by IonSugeRau1#1069 on Sep 30, 2025, 9:58:18 AM
1)monster density.
2)screen clearing abilities, spammy abilities and the like.
Both of these make visual clarity impossible.
Anyone that doesn't realize this extremely basic thing but still wants the gameplay to continue like this is fricked in the head.
The only way you could have visual clarity in this mess would be if spells and monster abilities literally had no visuals at all and you'd see only glowing outlines of their radius.
We have to address the root causes otherwise what are we even doing here.
I disagree. When talking in terms of the overall fidelity of the game traditional combat pacing becomes something that is not relevant in the late game.
In the late game, the game changes from traditional combat pacing to powerful builds and things that can kill them. It is not about engaging with every enemy on some separate level, it is more about avoiding the more dangerous area denial and debuff effects that your build cannot mitigate.
Traditional combat pacing is good to talk about in campaign and early prog, but in the late game we more wanna talk about how to mitigate issues that are inherent to the design through features like dynamic culling, and through mechanics that can interact with more powerful players.
Slowing down the pace of the game from the top down just presents the same issue from a different baseline. Everyone's perfect version of the game is different, and certain people/ groups will have this pacing issue regardless.
It can be a well crafted intentionally paced experience through the campaign and early prog, and then people can become powerful, kill a lot of monsters, and find insane items. To me, that is the best spot for the game to be in, and GGG should balance around the people that want to run the repeatable content for a long time on strong characters by just adding QOL for the effects on our screen, like a culling option for party members in multiplayer, like cleaning up some effects such as delirium and abyss modifiers, and like the changes they are already making in 0.3.1
IonSugeRau1#1069 is right. Visual clarity has never been fixed in Poe 1 and it never will be for 1 simple reason. As long as the screen is filled with 10000 monsters spamming their abilities/on death effects, with the player moving at the speed of light, casting/attacking at the speed of light, and filling 2 screen worth of aoe effects YOU WILL NEVER HAVE VISUAL CLARITY.
You are asking for 2 incompatible things. That's like me saying "I want to fly in the sky but run on the ground at the same time." In order to be considered "airborne" my feet cannot be on the ground running. In order to run my feet need to be on the ground, thus I am not considered airborne.
You need to greatly reduce monster density AND reduce player aoe, attack and cast speed.
Saying you want to mindlessly blast and want visual clarity is an oxymoron. 2 contradictory concepts in a sentence. The act of mindlessly blasting is "a full screen of monsters with a character zooming and blasting whole screens in one click". While visual clarity "require less monsters, and no full screen aoe while moving/attacking/casting at the speed of light so people can see what is happening".
Last edited by SoujiroSeta#2390 on Sep 30, 2025, 10:06:07 AM
I disagree. When talking in terms of the overall fidelity of the game traditional combat pacing becomes something that is not relevant in the late game.
In the late game, the game changes from traditional combat pacing to powerful builds and things that can kill them. It is not about engaging with every enemy on some separate level, it is more about avoiding the more dangerous area denial and debuff effects that your build cannot mitigate.
Traditional combat pacing is good to talk about in campaign and early prog, but in the late game we more wanna talk about how to mitigate issues that are inherent to the design through features like dynamic culling, and through mechanics that can interact with more powerful players.
Slowing down the pace of the game from the top down just presents the same issue from a different baseline. Everyone's perfect version of the game is different, and certain people/ groups will have this pacing issue regardless.
It can be a well crafted intentionally paced experience through the campaign and early prog, and then people can become powerful, kill a lot of monsters, and find insane items. To me, that is the best spot for the game to be in, and GGG should balance around the people that want to run the repeatable content for a long time on strong characters by just adding QOL for the effects on our screen, like a culling option for party members in multiplayer, like cleaning up some effects such as delirium and abyss modifiers, and like the changes they are already making in 0.3.1
I disagree blah blah blah... yeah, ok, fix me this:
Put my reply in spoilers, sums it up as "blah blah blah" and then serves up this:
What a genius! More transparent! Let's see how that works out.
No transparency:
50% transparency:
Oh wow, it just makes everything look worse and I still can't see shit.. what a surprise 😲😲
10% transparency:
Can barely see the skill but still looks shitty.. woah I am so shocked 🤯
It's pretty obviously the worst skill you can pick in a scenario you crafted to make it look worse, without culling on, and in other examples you do the same thing, and with a bad item filter (or none).
You say them culling the skill and leaving transparent parts is not doable,
They already do it and I showed that pretty clearly (without picking the most beneficial skill to prove my point, with the settings and skill I normally use, in my HO):
Just using my skill on the settings I have puts me under dynamic culling fps and lets me see clearly around it on a mid-level rig;
As you can see, when it gets insane (I dip below 70fps) it culls the more obtrusive effects and renders the more transparent ones. It still feels great to play. I get the impact of the big boom at the beginning but it does not fill my screen one thousand times or tax my framerate as much, it's nice.
Improvements to late game could be:
Spoiler
Say Abyss Monsters effects got cleaned up a little, people could probably see the degen when they need to.
Say, in options there is an option for your party members abilities to always be culled like mine above looks on sub 70fps, just to turn on when you were in a party with multiple builds popping off. People would probably enjoy playing together more.
Say, all of the skills had a nice middleground like this that does not chew up performance/ fill your screen and it was more reliable than the current culling system. We could toggle that on and see with any ability scaled to any crazy amount.
Say, delirium was a bit more clean, people probably wouldn't be as annoyed that it's basically a chisel and required late game.
Not a bad game we're talking about here for the people that actually play lategame, right?
You just be disingenuous, get passive aggressive, rinse & repeat. It is literally your bread & butter combo at this point.
