Trading needs a nerf

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

You state that SSF has separate balance?

no, that the game is balanced mostly around self found and the people who trade a lot are the ones playing an imbalanced version of the game.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

You state that SSF has separate balance?

no, that the game is balanced mostly around self found and the people who trade a lot are the ones playing an imbalanced version of the game.

But Chris Willson told in his Trade Manifesto that the game drop adjusted taking into account the trade. If we have the same rules for the trade and for SSF league, don't you think there must be some difference between them, because SSF players literally have no ability to trade anytning and on the other hand players on the trade can boost their item acquisition to another dimension!

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

You state that SSF has separate balance?

no, that the game is balanced mostly around self found and the people who trade a lot are the ones playing an imbalanced version of the game.

But Chris Willson told in his Trade Manifesto that the game drop adjusted taking into account the trade. If we have the same rules for the trade and for SSF league, don't you think there must be some difference between them, because SSF players literally have no ability to trade anytning and on the other hand players on the trade can boost their item acquisition to another dimension!

i agree here. SSF should have their own drop rates exclusively. you cant build around trading and blanket apply to all modes if 1 mode doesnt support trading.

People saying “just play SSF” are ignoring the fact that crafting sucks in PoE. It’s absolutely abysmal. Currency drops are far too rare and there’s essentially no control over crafting outcomes aside from even rarer currencies, and even those don’t let you determine the outcome, they just slightly improve your odds of getting what you want.

Compare this with taking your currency and going to the trade site where you’re guaranteed to get exactly what you need and it’s night and day. For example, today I bought a pair of boots with the following stats:

35% movement speed
139 max life
45 maximum energy shield
25 chaos resist
41 fire resist
24% rarity

It took me two seconds to find and buy these boots. I dare anyone to try and craft them. Go ahead. I’ll talk to you in two years if you haven’t been committed to a mental institution.

Crafting is completely and utterly pointless if you want to be efficient. You may as well take your currency and light it on fire.

SSF will continue to suck in this game unless they make significant boosts to drop rates in the game mode and/or introduce more ways to control the outcome or crafting.

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

But Chris Willson told in his Trade Manifesto that the game drop adjusted taking into account the trade.

no he didnt.

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Blasphemous84#2190 wrote:

People saying “just play SSF” are ignoring the fact that crafting sucks in PoE. It’s absolutely abysmal. Currency drops are far too rare and there’s essentially no control over crafting outcomes aside from even rarer currencies, and even those don’t let you determine the outcome, they just slightly improve your odds of getting what you want.

Compare this with taking your currency and going to the trade site where you’re guaranteed to get exactly what you need and it’s night and day. For example, today I bought a pair of boots with the following stats:

35% movement speed
139 max life
45 maximum energy shield
25 chaos resist
41 fire resist
24% rarity

It took me two seconds to find and buy these boots. I dare anyone to try and craft them. Go ahead. I’ll talk to you in two years if you haven’t been committed to a mental institution.

Crafting is completely and utterly pointless if you want to be efficient. You may as well take your currency and light it on fire.

SSF will continue to suck in this game unless they make significant boosts to drop rates in the game mode and/or introduce more ways to control the outcome or crafting.

the thing is those boots are completely unbalanced. going from wanting new boots to getting those boots in a couple of minutes is not a balanced state of the game. that is a completely outrageous imbalanced game state.

self found is not the problem in that equation, trading is the problem, trading is the thing resulting in the game balance being fucked. you are not supposed to have those boots unless you got out of your mind lucky on a drop or a craft.



trading will always be more effective than looting or crafting. that is just a fact, as long as you can trade the combined drops and crafts of a million people are always going to be better than our drops and crafts as an individual. thats just always going to be true.



but what is the game balance? is the game designed for you to get those shoes in 2 minutes or is it designed to almost never get those boots? the answer is never get them, that is the balanced version of the game.









what downsides are there to creating a barrier where friends cant play together and share drops? where players who didnt know they wanted to get into trade wall themselves off without realising what theyre doing?

having an ssf mode with increased drop rates is a terrible, terrible idea that would hurt the game. and we dont need it. whatever the ssf balance should be is just the game. most people even in trade league dont trade, even heavy traders dont trade during the campaign and early maps. the game has to work self found, the basic balance of the game should be self found, and it IS self found. the devs just like the game to be hard.

i think its too hard right now. i think they need to chill a bit on some mechanics, drop more alchs and essences, and chaos orbs tbh, they need to rethink some of the changes to the mod pools. theres stuff needs changed.


but it should not under any circumstances be walled off into a mode where you cant play with your friends and your entire game is now removed from all social aspects of the community. changes should be made to the base game. trade is already a joke, if you significantly trade your game is already an imbalanced shit show, there is no reason to make neccesary changes exclusive to some stupid ssf mode that is awful for the games community.

Please just go away. If you don't like trading don't do it but also don't go trying to get the game changed from the way the majority of the players like it. Most of us play Poe because there is no soul bound bs and we can trade for any and everything. I'm so sick of you people who can already play the game exactly how you want to trying to take shit away from the rest of us so we are forced to play your way.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

The problem with SSF it's balanced around the trade.

no its not.

Sorry, dear old Snorkle, but you are wrong here. The game is build and balanced (from the ground up) with trading in mind. Every key, every fragment and every orb are all balanced with the idea/possibility of those items being bought - and are all balanced thereafter. And as all drop rates are the same in SSF as they are in trade league, SSF IS also balanced around trade.

That said; that is how it's supposed to be. In PoE 1, SSF was demanded by the players as an environment where solo self found players could measure themselves up against each other with their own ladder. You don't play SSF because "you don't want to trade", you play SSF because you want a more challenging experience of doing everything yourself.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

But Chris Willson told in his Trade Manifesto that the game drop adjusted taking into account the trade.

no he didnt.

Trade Manifesto

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For items to matter, it's important that they can be traded to other players. It's important that you could give the item to the other player, if they were able to convince you into it. For this reason, almost nothing in Path of Exile is bound to your account. Even in Solo Self-Found mode, which doesn't allow trading, items can be moved at will into the regular trading leagues so that you can benefit from their value if desired.

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Easy trade means reducing drop rates
Compare two hypothetical games. In the first game, trade is very difficult. The majority of items that can't be used by your character are not traded to other people. In the second game, trade is very easy. Many of the items that you can't use are traded to other people for items that you can. In the second game, because of trade, you have a much higher acquisition rate of useful items. While that sounds great if you want instant gratification, in reality it means that the second game either receives reduced drop rates relative to the first, or ends up being a whole lot easier and less challenging to achieve goals in.

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Players who don't engage in trade are at a significant progression disadvantage in Path of Exile.

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

zzz

i don't see any parts in there that say ssf has "adjusted drops"

to me, it's just hypotheticals. chris is saying that because the player has ability to trade, so of course the player can progress faster