Once again GGG catering to Minion players nit picks and ignoring melee/lower left

"

Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

My disagreement is "ignoring melee" in your title. We just got the best revamp and update to everything during settlers. There is no ignoring melee happening recently.

I dont know when that glacial 6% thing happened, but it wasnt settlers thats for sure. The gem got 400% in settlers.




I feel like we just need to focus on what actually is the problem NOW and leave the rest of this stuff out. Because none of this extra stuff you have problems with even exist anymore.



Behemoth rampager node:

"your spells are disabled"

No auras, No curses, no fast movement, no defend skills is a major problem for any player in POE.

And a nonstarter for aspirational goals/content.



This needs to change if you want people to play this ascendancy.

Glacial hammer didn't get 400% in settlers. if you have blinders on and only look at the gem. We lost ancestral warchief and ancestral protector buffs along with some other things i cant even remember because its been so long. These were compensations for removing jank from the game that existed for an absolute eternity.

Settlers isn't the most recent thing to happen from ggg it is the launch of poe2. Consider that the developers that were working on poe1 were not the same ones developing balance on poe2. From what i can tell. They have left the good developers that did good things with melee for 3.25 and whoever designed divergent traume working on poe2 and we now have somebody else working on the poe2 temp league.

Settlers was an eternity ago. We may as well be in a d2lod dev cycle at the moment as far as poe1 goes.

He may be using a bit of hyperbole when he says ignoring, but I think the people who love melee are just wishing for something thats exciting. While its really strong ancestral commander isnt that exciting. The nodes in behemoth are, they're just overshadowed by the spells node.

Ancestral commander is just a worse in some ways and better in some ways jugg.

Antiquarian. The only build ive seen so far is a bama build. I dont know jack squat about ward though so idk.

"

Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

"

Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

My disagreement is "ignoring melee" in your title. We just got the best revamp and update to everything during settlers. There is no ignoring melee happening recently.

I dont know when that glacial 6% thing happened, but it wasnt settlers thats for sure. The gem got 400% in settlers.




I feel like we just need to focus on what actually is the problem NOW and leave the rest of this stuff out. Because none of this extra stuff you have problems with even exist anymore.



Behemoth rampager node:

"your spells are disabled"

No auras, No curses, no fast movement, no defend skills is a major problem for any player in POE.

And a nonstarter for aspirational goals/content.



This needs to change if you want people to play this ascendancy.

Glacial hammer didn't get 400% in settlers. if you have blinders on and only look at the gem. We lost ancestral warchief and ancestral protector buffs along with some other things i cant even remember because its been so long. These were compensations for removing jank from the game that existed for an absolute eternity.

Settlers isn't the most recent thing to happen from ggg it is the launch of poe2. Consider that the developers that were working on poe1 were not the same ones developing balance on poe2. From what i can tell. They have left the good developers that did good things with melee for 3.25 and whoever designed divergent traume working on poe2 and we now have somebody else working on the poe2 temp league.

Settlers was an eternity ago. We may as well be in a d2lod dev cycle at the moment as far as poe1 goes.

He may be using a bit of hyperbole when he says ignoring, but I think the people who love melee are just wishing for something thats exciting. While its really strong ancestral commander isnt that exciting. The nodes in behemoth are, they're just overshadowed by the spells node.

Ancestral commander is just a worse in some ways and better in some ways jugg.

Antiquarian. The only build ive seen so far is a bama build. I dont know jack squat about ward though so idk.

Glacial hammer got 400% on the upper end of the gem added to it.



You lost totems and I dont see how that has anything to do with this fact. Protector and warchief dont even come close to making up or providing anything here.

And totem "melee"?? Cmon really? You want that back or something?


And then we got ... possibly the greatest changes to the bottom left hand of the tree which... you are ignoring I guess?


Honestly this is getting a bit derailed now.




Just focus on what your issues are now. Can probably go further for feedback rather than whatever your guys' focus shifts to.

"

Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

My disagreement is "ignoring melee" in your title. We just got the best revamp and update to everything during settlers. There is no ignoring melee happening recently.

I dont know when that glacial 6% thing happened, but it wasnt settlers thats for sure. The gem got 400% in settlers.




I feel like we just need to focus on what actually is the problem NOW and leave the rest of this stuff out. Because none of this extra stuff you have problems with even exist anymore.



Behemoth rampager node:

"your spells are disabled"

No auras, No curses, no fast movement, no defend skills is a major problem for any player in POE.

And a nonstarter for aspirational goals/content.



This needs to change if you want people to play this ascendancy.

Okay fair enough. But the reason I'm not focusing on this specific time is all the times in the past where I focused on a specific thing and nothing changed and it continued to be a pattern that is just frustrating as all hell.

I've been talking about this pattern for years now. GGG has literally no idea its a pattern and seems blind to the feedback. You can show objectively that this pattern exists.

Like I listed some of them above but those are just the most major "slings and arrows". You got mathematical proof of just how completely neglected it was when Neon had to jack up damage effect on basically every melee skills by massive amounts.

Behemoth and Antiquarian are just the most recent in I want to say hundreds of examples of GGG "hating melee" (Note thats a meme but I think its a clear bias they might not even know they have) if people don't point it out they never will see it. Bias' don't need a conspiracy behind them. Just a lack of attention or consideration.

This goes back well past "Glacial Hammer now has 6% more damage (this is a buff)"
It goes to Armour scaling, Life and a bunch of stuff that did get addressed in 3.25 but then immediately re-commited or duplicated in POE2's Warrior offerings. The pattern is just sitting their self evident at this point. Why its a pattern is anyone's guess.

Melee needs a "Melee Ghazzy" to make "I don't like it" vids or something.

See, i think you're trolling.

The increased damage effectiveness was to make up for the damage you got from totems.

Ancestral warchieft 18% more damage at lvl 20

vaal version was 32% more damage. most people would wear those crappy boots form exarch that gave 100% increased effect of totem buffs

ancestral protector gave you 20% more attack speed

Glacial hammer was not given a 400% buff. It was compensated for losses in these buffs.

Its actually hilarious it took 400% increase effectiveness to make up for these changes.

Trauma was nerfed this patch. probably to balance these damage numbers.

rage vortex of berserking got slapped in the face with the loss of totems.


These are the exact words from the patch notes:

Melee Totem Skills Removal

Melee Totem Skills have been removed. We decided on this solution rather than simply removing their passive buffs in order to make sure that melee builds are not oriented around set & forget gameplay, and to allow dealing damage yourself with melee skills to be buffed to appropriately rewarding levels.

To compensate, we have buffed the damage on almost every single Melee Skill. As the majority of this damage growth comes from gem levels, we have also made them cost more mana as they level, but it's still nothing like the mana cost on spells. Please see the Skill Gem Changes section for the full list of these changes.


This is not "buffing" glacial hammer. there are only 81 glacial hammer pobs on poeninja for sctrade settlers.

Tota was peak glacial hammer gameplay when we had divergent trauma, but that was deleted after 1 league. I made 3 glacial hammer juggs in hc. Everytime one died i made another one. The next league it was 1/3 of what it was in tota.

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

"

Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

My disagreement is "ignoring melee" in your title. We just got the best revamp and update to everything during settlers. There is no ignoring melee happening recently.

I dont know when that glacial 6% thing happened, but it wasnt settlers thats for sure. The gem got 400% in settlers.




I feel like we just need to focus on what actually is the problem NOW and leave the rest of this stuff out. Because none of this extra stuff you have problems with even exist anymore.



Behemoth rampager node:

"your spells are disabled"

No auras, No curses, no fast movement, no defend skills is a major problem for any player in POE.

And a nonstarter for aspirational goals/content.



This needs to change if you want people to play this ascendancy.

Okay fair enough. But the reason I'm not focusing on this specific time is all the times in the past where I focused on a specific thing and nothing changed and it continued to be a pattern that is just frustrating as all hell.

I've been talking about this pattern for years now. GGG has literally no idea its a pattern and seems blind to the feedback. You can show objectively that this pattern exists.

Like I listed some of them above but those are just the most major "slings and arrows.

Behemoth and Antiquarian are just the most recent in I want to say hundreds of examples of GGG "hating melee" (Note thats a meme but I think its a clear bias they might not even know they have) if people don't point it out they never will see it.

This goes back well past "Glacial Hammer 6% increased damage (this is a buff)
It goes to Armour scaling. Life and a bunch of stuff that did get addressed in 3.25 but then immediately re-commited in POE2's Warrior offerings.

Melee needs a "Melee Ghazzy" to make "I don't like it" vids or something.

Yea and when it comes to that its just....


Melee is not popular. So you know, if we as melee users have these kinds of issues, our voices are pretty small in comparison to the masses that play all the more popular stuff.

And then we dont really have easy to follow content creators that play this archetype either.

Alkaizer and Carn arent the best communicators and they dont really make content.

Just the nature of the beast.


Im excited like crazy for Ancestral Commander, so thats enough for me.

Id like them to really remove that line on Behemoth and if they dont, I just wont play that ascendancy. Sucks :\

Lonnie id rather not, post doesnt need to be about a million different things.

Al, carn does it, i just dont think they care. They probably like watching him and alkaizer fail to craft an uber worthy weapon every gauntlet. While the builds ben plays have all their gear day 2-3.

I think the mountain climb that melee is, is their vision. Its just not competitive enough if you look at effort vs reward. The only reason to play it is that you enjoy it. GGG knows that just enough people enjoy playing it enough that they will play it even when it is shit. They have had me trolled since 3.16 ive played earthshatter berserker at least once. Realized it was mediocre compared to my league starter. then rerolled the character. Once you find a fourth vow though berserker can really pop off in hc. Assuming you're not interested in making suppression work. *hint im not. that shit is too much work for a left tree build pre shipyard.

For the longest time you felt like a fool if you didnt play ea champ or something stupid like that for league start. I rejected that idea and always started a shitty berserker regardless.

Gen cry shield crush was fun for a couple leagues but then every league something would change and the build was nerfed little by little.

Corpsewalker nerf because of dd was really annoying. the call to arms changes really sucked.

Then losing a support gem by having to use autoexertion was just like. hmm thanks for the slap in the mouth.

Meanwhile tornado shot, lightning arrow, spark just insane.

I did enjoy lightning strike for a couple leagues but after how kalandra league worked out i associate that skill with that league and its like getting the flu after eating something.

All during this time everyone would say play boneshatter, boneshatter is so cool, oh play boneshatter. Got so sick of hearing that. Trauma was a cool support. boneshatter was not fun. It was annoying how good it cleared and how terrible it felt if you enjoyed bossing. Admittedly i played it on jugg like 3-4 times before i tried slayer and it was way more damage on slayer for bossing but then you're paper thin without insane gear. Like imagine if the best spell skill was something like boneshatter and not something insane like what exists.

There are probably tools to make melee actually insane but its just a waste of time when spells scale so insanely good without makinga mirror tier weapon.

Lets not talk about crafting the weapons for a phys build vs crafting a +1 +1 sceptre with veiled spell damage prefix. What a joke it is getting prefixes on phys weapons before 3.25 and necro broken crafting. OR having a 6l associated with your weapon so you have to farm tempering orbs and hit your 8% phys mod before you 6l your weapon. but first you have to craft the dang thing.

"

Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

See, i think you're trolling.

The increased damage effectiveness was to make up for the damage you got from totems.

Ancestral warchieft 18% more damage at lvl 20

vaal version was 32% more damage. most people would wear those crappy boots form exarch that gave 100% increased effect of totem buffs

ancestral protector gave you 20% more attack speed

Glacial hammer was not given a 400% buff. It was compensated for losses in these buffs.

Its actually hilarious it took 400% increase effectiveness to make up for these changes.

Trauma was nerfed this patch. probably to balance these damage numbers.

rage vortex of berserking got slapped in the face with the loss of totems.


These are the exact words from the patch notes:

Melee Totem Skills Removal

Melee Totem Skills have been removed. We decided on this solution rather than simply removing their passive buffs in order to make sure that melee builds are not oriented around set & forget gameplay, and to allow dealing damage yourself with melee skills to be buffed to appropriately rewarding levels.

To compensate, we have buffed the damage on almost every single Melee Skill. As the majority of this damage growth comes from gem levels, we have also made them cost more mana as they level, but it's still nothing like the mana cost on spells. Please see the Skill Gem Changes section for the full list of these changes.


This is not "buffing" glacial hammer. there are only 81 glacial hammer pobs on poeninja for sctrade settlers.

Tota was peak glacial hammer gameplay when we had divergent trauma, but that was deleted after 1 league. I made 3 glacial hammer juggs in hc. Everytime one died i made another one. The next league it was 1/3 of what it was in tota.

I think 3.25 improved melee a lot if you like big hitting stuff (bleed and ignite) which happens to decribe me. It certainly worsened melee a lot if you liked to stack attack speed. This explains why we keep disagreeing about this. In general I can see your viewpoint and if I loved giga attacks speed shredding builds I'd almost certainly view 3.25 as a big L. Either way its all still strictly inferior to the fast, comfy, easy mode OP spell and ranged stuff.

In the end we both feel like GGG doesn't get melee and isn't doing a very good job at making it better so lets agree on that and not get bogged down in how much worse it is than everything else you can do.

Sorry mash i could rant forever, i dont mean to be like this but this is something i am very passionate about because this is pretty much the only game i care about. I might play a d2r modded game 8-9 days out of the year. Then when melee is in the dumps there's nothing to play except getting chain farmed on hc on shit builds.

melee is fine, spells are the weakest way to play atm

there's always got to be at least one its fine; its just traditional at this point.