Content outside of fully juiced maps feels very unrewarding.

POE2 currently gives the feeling that I have to 3x Paranoia fully juice maps with at least 100% rarity to have decent drops.

If I don't do so the loot outcome feels horrible.

Even if I run T15 100% Rarity maps without 3x Instilling the loot is practicaly non existent.....my last run in such map gave me back maybe 10-20 Exalt return in total (rolling such map costed me 3 times more)

A 6 mod map btw with 120% rarity (and 100% on my char), good Abysall Prefix, 3 decent Tablets but only without Instilling.

If the Rare mobs don't have "1 additional mod + additional abyss mod" + whatever it takes to have lootplosion, the loot drop from them is more or less 0...sometimes it's even practicaly 0, not even 1 gold.

It's the same situation as with the 3 towers before and the areas that are not inbetween 3 towers and have no bonus content...it feels low in value.

And don't get me wrong here, super juiced maps should always have the best loot outcome (high risk high reward princliple) but make the other 99% less unrewarding please.

The current situation gives us player the feeling that only fully juiced maps give profit and T1-15 maps without juice a waste of time and currency.

This leads to "I have to rush to T15 super juiced maps" gameplay, because everything else is unrewarding....and this on the other hand limits the endgame variaty if every content before that has no value.

I would love to see a return of valuable low map tier farming possibilities (like Beast or Essence farm in POE1 f.e. back in the days)...something that can be done with freshly made characters that are not that strong to farm uber juiced T15 maps but don't leave a bad taste in the mouth that there's no point to farm maps till that point.

Or make re-running campaign bosses valuable even in late endgame....I've already made a suggestion here how this could look like:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3708357

Thank you. :)

Loot in general feels horrible right now. But I think that's because people have so much currency, they can just easily trade for gear they want, so loot becomes obsolete, except for currency. I am preferring playing PoE 1 at the moment, because of this. The balance there is much better.

But yeah I do agree. Having to sauce up maps to the max is shouldn't be a prerequisite for fun gameplay.

Right, that always bothered me that if you play game normally, you rarely get things. I could understand if that was somewhat intended, but on the other hand if you use secret shenanigans you suddenly get infinite currency, that is most certainly terrible design and makes for mediocre experience if you're not try harding, which I believe most people don't want to do it, and don't even know how to do it.

Why make it even harder for new players though and what's the point of gatekeeping loot? Make it fair for everybody.

Yeah, people who want there to be less monsters and the game to be slow don't understand that they are just not gonna find anything.

Then those same people will come and say they hate the game after it's slower, because "people with rarity" or "streamer doing this and I can't".

It's pretty simple, right, people who are better at the game, invest more time and effort in theory crafting their character, doing the right strats, they always make more, and it is always effectively the same gap for the player experience whether the juiced content is juicy or not. Whether the drops are there or not.

It bleeds down, the top sees problems that the bottom can't yet. They do not have the perspective, but eventually, they run into these same problems, and if we decide to "close the gap" by making content less valuable, what you are gonna get is these players running into these problem even sooner and having their disillusions smashed and replaced with new ones.

Balance the bottom/mid in terms of progression, and balance the top in terms of efficiency and variety. It is what has been done before, and what works.

"

AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

Yeah, people who want there to be less monsters and the game to be slow don't understand that they are just not gonna find anything.

Then those same people will come and say they hate the game after it's slower, because "people with rarity" or "streamer doing this and I can't".

If game was slower, they would obviously balance loot differently. If the intention of the game is to go slow, but you mainly get rewarded if you go fast, that's pretty bad.

"

It's pretty simple, right, people who are better at the game, invest more time and effort in theory crafting their character, doing the right strats, they always make more, and it is always effectively the same gap for the player experience whether the juiced content is juicy or not. Whether the drops are there or not.

It bleeds down, the top sees problems that the bottom can't yet. They do not have the perspective, but eventually, they run into these same problems, and if we decide to "close the gap" by making content less valuable, what you are gonna get is these players running into these problem even sooner and having their disillusions smashed and replaced with new ones.

I have no problems if the 1% can run content that my character can't do difficulty vise.

Quite opposite, I would wish myself even more uber endgame content that requires very good min/maxed gear and that's not possible to beat without....as more such content as higher the motivation to min/max the own gear the whole league long.

But that's not what I talk about here.

Atm in POE2 everyting till fully juiced T15 maps feels not worth it and rly bad reward vise....and playing fully juiced maps is more about min/maxing the own PC hardware to have more than 15-20 FPS in such content rather than min/maxing the own gear.

I think it's not fun to play a game for around 100+ hours without any return just to end up in content that drops valuable loot but lags & screenclutters like hell?

And this in a game that want's to be slower with meaningful fights...but in reality the only valuable loot comes from maps packed with 32094725 mobs, in a grey & foggy environment and the need to run builds with 2 screen clears and hope that the build doesen't wreck your graphic card bcs of the skill effects and the death animation of trillion mobs at the same time.

I don't want to play whole screen explosion clicker lagfest to have decent rewards, let me run low densed but also very challanging maps with the possibility to have the same outcome as those fully juiced screenclutter maps.

Give me the "first time campaign" also in T15 even with decent gear, means meaningful fights in not so dense maps with thrilling boss encounters at the end.

Ofc keep the densed maps for those who like this gameplay....Diversity & variaty is the keyword here by making all content viable, not just fully juiced T15 maps with abnormous mob density.

"

Niszczyciel#1619 wrote:

"

AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

Yeah, people who want there to be less monsters and the game to be slow don't understand that they are just not gonna find anything.

Then those same people will come and say they hate the game after it's slower, because "people with rarity" or "streamer doing this and I can't".

If game was slower, they would obviously balance loot differently. If the intention of the game is to go slow, but you mainly get rewarded if you go fast, that's pretty bad.

But did they though? In 0.1 people weren't happy with the "balance" making it "slower". They buff it, people find breach strats, we are happy. 0.2 they nerf the progress/ power, they nerfed breach, nobody liked it. The people who didn't run breach, still didn't run it, and the people that did, were unhappy. The people who normally don't reach end-game because of "too many monsters", still didn't reach end game.

There are too many mixed sentiments in feedback, and when they make a general change like "slowing down the game", usually no one is made happy by it. Not even the people that asked for it.

It is simple from my perspective, just balance these things separately. Know your playerbase. Know what frame of reference they are using when they give feedback.

Separate issues regarding progression like combat pacing, monster amounts, items found by worse players, from issues in the late game like juicing, visual clarity, content variety etc.

Separate SSF sentiments and trade sentiments and work on the game from the top down. People at the top end in trade, observe problems, that everyone else will run into. Don't take their suggestions as concrete, but just listen to what they are saying about the actual functions of your game, and put it in terms that can smoothen things out overall.

The way they do things now, is the community gets sour, they knee-jerk and make changes nobody is happy with, and then they finally start looking into how things actually function when there is no other choice.

Do not listen to rotten sentiments. Do not succumb to disillusion from insular communities. Find the average, find the encompassing takes that consider most of the ramifications. Make the changes that tickle your brain when you think of playing. Stop nerfing the top-end so hard and so generally, because clueless people hop on hate trains. Nerf things specifically. Do things with purpose.

"

CroDanZ#1818 wrote:

"

It's pretty simple, right, people who are better at the game, invest more time and effort in theory crafting their character, doing the right strats, they always make more, and it is always effectively the same gap for the player experience whether the juiced content is juicy or not. Whether the drops are there or not.

It bleeds down, the top sees problems that the bottom can't yet. They do not have the perspective, but eventually, they run into these same problems, and if we decide to "close the gap" by making content less valuable, what you are gonna get is these players running into these problem even sooner and having their disillusions smashed and replaced with new ones.

I have no problems if the 1% can run content that my character can't do difficulty vise.

Quite opposite, I would wish myself even more uber endgame content that requires very good min/maxed gear and that's not possible to beat without....as more such content as higher the motivation to min/max the own gear the whole league long.

But that's not what I talk about here.

Atm in POE2 everyting till fully juiced T15 maps feels not worth it and rly bad reward vise....and playing fully juiced maps is more about min/maxing the own PC hardware to have more than 15-20 FPS in such content rather than min/maxing the own gear.

Or is it fun for you to play a game for around 100+ hours without any return just to end up in content that drops valuable loot but lags & screenclutters like hell?

And this in a game that want's to be slower with meaningful fights...but in reality the only valuable loot comes from maps packed with 32094725 mobs, in a grey & foggy environment and the need to run builds with 2 screen clears and hope that the build doesen't wreck your graphic card bcs of the skill effects and the death animation of trillion mobs at the same time.

I don't want to play whole screen explosion clicker lagfest to have decent rewards, let me run low densed but also very challanging maps with the possibility to have the same outcome as those fully juiced screenclutter maps.

Give me the "first time campaign" also in T15 even with decent gear, means meaningful fights in not so dense maps with thrilling boss encounters at the end.

Ofc keep the densed maps for those who like this gameplay....Diversity & variaty is the keyword here by making all content viable, not just fully juiced T15 maps with abnormous mob density.

I was agreeing with you mate, if you didn't latch onto one paragraph out of context, that's pretty plain to see.

"

I was agreeing with you mate, if you didn't latch onto one paragraph out of context, that's pretty plain to see.

Was not a critics to what you've said, think I didn't write it propperly (sry English is not my native language).

It was just an addition to my point above without the intention contradicting you...sry if it seemed that way. :)

"

CroDanZ#1818 wrote:

"

I was agreeing with you mate, if you didn't latch onto one paragraph out of context, that's pretty plain to see.

Was not a critics to what you've said, think I didn't write it propperly (sry English is not my native language).

It was just an addition to my point above without the intention contradicting you...sry if it seemed that way. :)

Ok mate, all good. :)

Specific content with less monsters but being more rewarding is a great idea by the way!