SSF should be more rewarding to play. I'm not a masochist for pete sakes...

"

That still doesn't mean it isn't poorly designed. So yes of course I do "desire" but I don't believe I "deserve" it. It would be nice. Hence why I put this post in EA Feedback, ya know. I hope the irony of this is genuinely not lost on you lol.

The difference between someone who 'desires more' and someone who 'thinks they deserve more' kinda boils down to "making a post saying the system is broken". If you desire more, you work on finding ways for yourself to progress. If you think you deserve more, you put the onus on other people, because you believe you've done "enough"

This post falls into category 2, and it also makes the mistake of implying that people that enjoy/are successful in their goals in SSF are "masochists" or somehow lesser than you.

I don't like either thing occuring, so i'll ask you to stop doing so.

SSF doesnt need to be any different from trade leagues. It just game lacks proper midgame crafting/target farm options. Loot otg are just bad.
And while items are extremely powerful in poe2 and skilltree is not, it not allow you to compensate with farming just exp.

"

KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

SSF is a challenge mode that should remain exactly the way it is. GGG so far has never given any indication they're ever considering this despite it being broth up weekly since it came out basically. You choose to make the game harder, don't cry to other people because of your decisions imo.

Eh I respect and thank you for just shooting it straight.

Unfortunately, I would go as far as to say the reason GGG doesn't change anything is not because it was originally designed to be "harder". Rather resource management and priorities at GGG were not focused on delivering a genuine SSF experience and it was easier to design it as they did. By simply removing trade. Rebalancing the game I guess was just not in the cards.

Companies will say oh we intentionally did it this way... Although if you just look at it, really just look at it for what it is. More likely than not, they just didn't care to go through the whole rebalance stuff and it was easier to just give a no-trade mode to satisfy a margin of their playerbase.

Logically to me it doesn't make sense. As I responded to others... If GGG's led PoE1 standard to be a self-driven economy with trade being secondary. I don't believe as you said above that people would be complaining weekly... The very fact that people are bringing this up shows that there is a conversation to be had. Whether GGG cares to come to the table or not is another thing.

The reason D2 or D2R works and is still played over 20 years later. Is due to how the game is balanced around a Self-Driven economy with trade being secondary. GGG made a gamble and don't get me wrong I think it was the right choice. Trade-league brings in so much money and traffic for them.

Of course GGG can design SSF however they damn please but from my perspective (my opinion). This is a flawed implementation of SSF that is neglected for the sake of "hardcore parkour" masochism excuses.

"

vzmNitie#2139 wrote:

SSF doesnt need to be any different from trade leagues. It just game lacks proper midgame crafting/target farm options. Loot otg are just bad.
And while items are extremely powerful in poe2 and skilltree is not, it not allow you to compensate with farming just exp.

I can agree with what you are saying and despite not being a big fan of how masochistic SSF feels to me. If they similar to PoE1 gave better options for target farming or crafting I would probably be playing SSF over standard.

The only reason I believe SSF should technically be different from a trade league is because. The core foundation of SSF is a self-driven economy and standard's balancing revolves around the expectation that you participate in a trade-driven economy.

The reason as I said to another, D2 or D2R still hold a playerbase decades later is because the game is self-driven first and trade secondary. That is why the whole offline D2 thing works in the first place.

I don't expect GGG to imo fix the flawed foundation of SSF. Although if they simply added better crafting options... I would be more interested in playing SSF.

"

SaintLessLegend#6078 wrote:

"

Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

And how is this related to SSF?

Clearly the meaning of my response to you flew over your head.

How is this related to SSF, you would of known if you had at minimum skimmed it. I didn't type a chapters worth. If you think that is a lot to read. God Forbid you had to skim the patch notes.


If you are taking the time to go through forum posts. Logically speaking you don't have any issues with reading... I get it but mate it ain't bloody 10 chapters of reading lmao. Stop being lazy and just read.

Or you can include tldr in your post. It takes less time for you to do that than for me to read the whole article lol.

"

xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

The difference between someone who 'desires more' and someone who 'thinks they deserve more' kinda boils down to "making a post saying the system is broken". If you desire more, you work on finding ways for yourself to progress. If you think you deserve more, you put the onus on other people, because you believe you've done "enough"

This post falls into category 2, and it also makes the mistake of implying that people that enjoy/are successful in their goals in SSF are "masochists" or somehow lesser than you.

I don't like either thing occuring, so i'll ask you to stop doing so.

You brought up the whole desires more and thinks they deserver more argument.

This was the only time I used the word desired:

"

So there was a reliable way in SSF way back to get the currency you desired.

Which was in reference to how it was possible to farm currencies like jeweller's orbs and chaos due to vendor recipes way back. Something that is lacking in PoE2.

So you could deduce that I desire at minimum a better crafting system in PoE2 (in general). Although I fail to see your argument about category 2. You are essentially saying, because I view the current state of SSF to be masochistic. I am essentially saying that the people who enjoy this mode are not only "somehow lesser than" me but they are also "masochists".

Also suggesting I think others are lesser to me. Your words not mine. The masochistic thing is a bit of an exaggeration but no I won't stop. It's my opinion and I won't be censored cause you don't like it. It's called freedom of speech and it enables us to offend and to be offended. So respectfully no I won't censor my opinions because you don't like it.

As for the whole desire thing. Similar to another you are missing the point. I agree that if you desire something you will find alternatives 1000% I bloody agree with you. You know what my solution is, I reinstalled D2R and I am having a blast with an Offline(SSF pretty much) sorc.

I won't assume the jest of what you were saying about putting onto others etc... is akin to saying I am making excuses not to play SSF and blaming others... for not enjoying it. Maybe that's wrong I won't put words into your mouth if that is the case cool if not okay.

Side note though: I don't think or even believe I "deserve" more. It' so ironic how posting in an EA "feedback" brings out convo like this. Mate what is the definition of feedback.

Definition of FEEDBACK: "information about reactions to a product, a person's performance of a task, etc. which is used as a basis for improvement."

Paraphrasing, "information about reactions(opinions/experiences) with a product(PoE, SSF), a person's performance(time-to-reward investment) of a task(SSF progression). Which is used as a basis for improvement(for PoE, SSF, progression).

Also similar to another you are completely missing the point. You are nit picking on my ability or desire for change rather than genuinely looking at what I am saying.

I am expressing that GGG designed PoE to function on a trade-driven economy. Although throughout the history of gaming you will find that SSF based game modes were largely balanced around a self-driven economy. So yes, the current state of SSF is flawed as the nature of PoE's foundation is based on a trade-driven economy. That means loot drop rates + crafting etc... is balanced around trading.

GGG can make SSF as difficult as they want it is there game but as others have said I am not the only one who feels this way and if SSF complaints are weekly occurrence and have been since it's inception. Then perhaps there is a point to be made. It's just that GGG doesn't care to allocate resources to balance a proper SSF mode. It's easier to just say oh ya we meant for it to be "more" challenging and just few lines of code to block trade. Then to go through and fully balance it. Too much work I get it but one can hope.


I can go as far as to say when you say that my desire is I have done enough and I deserve more... I can say you have grown comfortable and submissive to a flawed system. Instead of fighting for a better one that respects your time. You have fallen to acceptance...

You see how easy that was, probably not true and you most likely just enjoy a harder SSF but enjoy a harder SSF doesn't mean it's not flawed. Riddle me this, how is it that SSF based games or even singleplayer games are so successful. That's essentially what you are playing in SSF, singleplayer mode. These types of games are successful because they are balanced around respecting your time-investment with reward ratios that reflect a self-driven economy.

"

de99ial#0161 wrote:

As an SSF forever player i say: no.

That's chill, as an enjoyer of SSF or singleplayer balanced games that respect your time-investment, I say: yes.

wow that was fun!

"

Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

"

SaintLessLegend#6078 wrote:

"

Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

And how is this related to SSF?

Clearly the meaning of my response to you flew over your head.

How is this related to SSF, you would of known if you had at minimum skimmed it. I didn't type a chapters worth. If you think that is a lot to read. God Forbid you had to skim the patch notes.


If you are taking the time to go through forum posts. Logically speaking you don't have any issues with reading... I get it but mate it ain't bloody 10 chapters of reading lmao. Stop being lazy and just read.

Or you can include tldr in your post. It takes less time for you to do that than for me to read the whole article lol.

I had a whole bit about how literally you are the only one who is having issues with reading the post. Mind you, reflecting on things, you are right. I was wrong and I apologize. It took me a few times going back and forth with others to really hone in on a better way to convey what I wanted to say in the original post. It's why I was like why don't you just read it but the more I thought about it. The more I realised you might be responding to other posts and in doing so a tldr would help immensely. So again I am sorry for my rudeness it was wrong of me. I don't believe I was able to give a proper tldr yesterday but after last night I can. So I will add the tldr to the original post...

TLDR:

GGG has led PoE to be a trade-driven economy. Although the jest of what I am saying is that SSF is a self-driven economy. Rationally speaking the reason why a game like D2/D2R has no issues in an offline mode. Largely is due to the foundation of the game revolving around a self-driven economy with trade being secondary. I'd argue this is why the vast majority of ARPGs to single-player games are successful despite having an online feature for trading or co-op loot based gameplay.

My point, being that GGG should of acknowledged that the core foundation of their standard league directly contradicts an SSF mode. In implementing this mode without balancing it to fit a genuine self-driven economy. Despite being enjoyable for some it largely is flawed and does not respect the players time-investment.

Hence why I wish PoE2 had vendor recipes similar to PoE1 or a crafting bench to enable less rng and better target farming. In my opinion GGG looked at resource allocation and said it was too much work to balance SSF but they wanted to satisfy that margin of the community so they released it as is with a loot system that still revolves around a trade-economy. Then suggested it was their intention to make it more difficult, I don't buy that though. I think it was just easier for them. [EDIT] I also don't blame them for doing this if my opinion is correct cause that's what logically make sense from a business stand point.

"

I can go as far as to say when you say that my desire is I have done enough and I deserve more... I can say you have grown comfortable and submissive to a flawed system. Instead of fighting for a better one that respects your time. You have fallen to acceptance...

You see how easy that was, probably not true and you most likely just enjoy a harder SSF but enjoy a harder SSF doesn't mean it's not flawed.

There is a box at character creation. It says "solo self-found"

When you hover over it, the following appears:

"This optional mode disables trade and party play for this character. You can convert it back to a regular character at any time."

You are told, when you create a character, that it's optional. You're told trade and party play is disabled. You're told you can quit whenever you please and go back to being a trade character.

You opt into this.

You want to talk about 'respecting your time'? Respect your own time and don't click the box when you make a character, instead of trying to make an argument that "we deserve more rewards for playing this way", because nobody promised you anything.

as for whether i'm "comfortable and submissive with a flawed system" (see what i mean about talking down to people that disagree with you? Consider that.) or if i simply want a 'harder ssf'...

neither.

I want SSF for exactly what it was advertised as: A mode without trade/parties. And that's what I get.

You're the one opening the box and expecting something else. And that's not the game's problem, and it's not the game's flaw. It's yours.

"

xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

You want to talk about 'respecting your time'? Respect your own time and don't click the box when you make a character, instead of trying to make an argument that "we deserve more rewards for playing this way", because nobody promised you anything.

as for whether i'm "comfortable and submissive with a flawed system" (see what i mean about talking down to people that disagree with you? Consider that.) or if i simply want a 'harder ssf'...

neither.

I want SSF for exactly what it was advertised as: A mode without trade/parties. And that's what I get.

You're the one opening the box and expecting something else. And that's not the game's problem, and it's not the game's flaw. It's yours.

First of, I can't find any post I made here that says this "we deserve more rewards for playing this way" and again you are putting words in my mouth. Not my words, those are your words. I have made the argument solely that I would like to see more vendor recipes as well as pointed out the flaw in specifically PoE's SSF-Foundation being built on a foundation of balance that is designed for a trade-league. That is a fair and just point to be made. It amazes me that people defend an SSF that is balanced around a trade-economy minus trade. As if SSF shouldn't be balanced around a self-driven economy. It genuinely baffles my mind.

When I said;

"

I can go as far as to say when you say that my desire is I have done enough and I deserve more... I can say you have grown comfortable and submissive to a flawed system. Instead of fighting for a better one that respects your time. You have fallen to acceptance...

I specifically say after,

"

You see how easy that was, probably not true and you most likely just enjoy a harder SSF

I am not talking down to you. I am using your logic in the whole "desire" based analogy with me. That is all. I am showing why this method of thinking is flawed and easily manipulated to fit your own personal take on things. To show how easy it is to apply your words onto others. I don't necessarily believe you are as I described. I say probably because I don't want to assume, as you have with me.

It is you, who has made assumptions and put words in my mouth for instance in reference to:

"

xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

it also makes the mistake of implying that people that enjoy/are successful in their goals in SSF are "masochists" or somehow lesser than you.

Making the assumption that I view others as less than for enjoying an iteration of SSF I deem(my opinion) masochistic. Again those are your words not mine, I don't believe people are less than me for enjoying it nor do I believe a masochist is a lesser person because... I even express the word masochistic is being used as an exaggerated term.

"

There is a box at character creation. It says "solo self-found"

When you hover over it, the following appears:

"This optional mode disables trade and party play for this character. You can convert it back to a regular character at any time."

You are told, when you create a character, that it's optional. You're told trade and party play is disabled. You're told you can quit whenever you please and go back to being a trade character.

You opt into this.

You are completely ignoring the essence of why I made this post. I agree, I don't opt into SSF because I believe the iteration of SSF in PoE currently is a waste of time. As for being able to quit anytime. That is a valid point but again it misses the point I am making.

I have participated in SSF in PoE... I am very aware of the ability to opt out. Ironically you don't see me calling you condescending for pointing any of this out to me. You are just making a point (period).

My point was in reference to my "desire" for better vendor recipes in PoE2. I would love to see SSF rebalanced to fit a self-driven economy but I understand if others don't agree with that.

Okay, let me ask you this:

Do you believe SSF in PoE is balanced around a self-driven economy or a trade-driven economy? Not can you trade... I am specifically asking about loot drop to crafting. Would you say that SSF is balanced around a self-driven or trade economy?

If you believe SSF is balanced around a self-driven economy. As in drop rates to crafting... is all balanced with SSF in mind. I want you to explain to me the evidence of this, please. How SSF varies from Standard such that it fits a self-driven economy that is balanced for that game mode. It is a fact, I mean there is no opinion on this: Standard is balanced around a trade-driven economy. That isn't me speculating that is straight up a fact everyone knows. So please explain to me how SSF in PoE respects the foundation of a self-driven economy that is balanced around that foundation of play.

Genuinely, tell me of another game that does SSF like this, balances SSF around a trade-driven economy. Pretty much every single game you can name out there 9/10 times is going to have a self-driven economy, trade second foundation. I think even Last Epoch does this as well self-driven first trade second. Grim dawn to the old Diablo games as well. I mean SSF has been around for a long time. Don't get me wrong people have made unique HC+ challenges for every gamemode out there right. Although the essence of SSF is pretty established.

GGG can slap a no trade game mode on and call it SSF but that doesn't mean it is a balanced SSF gamemode.