Can you stop nerfing things just for sake of it?

"

Hornsent#1110 wrote:

Useless level 1 support enchant added (lmao)

You lost me here. You are talking about wanting to get stronger and stronger, which is still completely possible, but at the same time you nudge at the extra Level 1 Support gem, the one that makes every six-link effectively a seven-link. This is something everyone starts to drool over because it is literally a good damage multiplier even at Level 1.

This already shows one of two things. Either you do not pursue strength properly or you do not understand how to be strong without a broken interaction, or you just want a completely busted tool that was never meant to exist in the game in order to enjoy it. Whatever the case, if power is what you are after, it is right within your reach.

I mean, I guess I appreciate your reply OP.

But if I didn't already think your takes were unhinged, your list of "dead" things (which included ES in general AND 7-links), is like 100 nails in your coffin.

At least now I can rest knowing no one will ever take your feedback seriously :D

the imbued gems are.. very mixed bag

the opportunity cost is HUGE. Imbued == no Vaal Skill (unless in separate link setup but that is very rare and increases the opportunity cost even more)

Then lvl 1 supports are by definition bad numerically. So you only care about supports with:
- binary effect (like cull)
- strong starting %more effect (faster attacks/casting) - but only these you would NOT use in your links in the first place.
- non-bricking mods (Brutality on Elemental Hit)

Also - some gems gain a lot from that +1 level you loose when imbuing (threshold of some sort)

That means most of your (probably very rare) coins will end up like that one on a teaser page: Ground Slam, no Vaal, with +10-15 cold damage - instant vendor.

There will be absolute hits but this mechanic is very narrow in application scope - people will mostly spam ~5 gems, gems that kinda did not need any extra attention

to be frank - this is one change POE could do fine without

"The new mechanics need to be really powerful or people will be mad."

-Video title from some dudes that play poe a lot and have a lot of viewers

This thread is just one datapoint that people are worried GGG nerfed to much. And yes if the new league mechanic does not deliver, it is almost Expedition level nerfs across the board if you count past nerfs form 1-2 leagues ago(ok, big totem buff, maybe not as extreme, but still).

But it will deliver, i have trust.

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

Also - some gems gain a lot from that +1 level you loose when imbuing (threshold of some sort)

No Sid, an extra level 1 support gem outweighs a single skill gem level by a huge margin. Take, for example, an ice trap build, which heavily favors skill levels.
A build dealing 498.6 million damage with a level 21 Ice Trap gem would instead deal 565.2 million damage with Hypothermia level 1 and just a level 20 Ice Trap gem.

That’s already a massive difference of over 60 million. Now, you might say, “But good luck getting Hypothermia.” Even with one of the weaker support gems, like Cold Penetration, you still gain 18 million more damage compared to the 1 extra level.

You might argue, “But it’s a glass cannon Uber farmer.” The same math applies to every other build with skill gems. The numbers may look different, but the outcome is the same: the extra level 1 support gem is stronger than the extra skill level.

From another perspective, a level 1 support gem can be used for utility or to fit a weaker support gem in a six-link setup, freeing space for other gems that might enhance your build, such as Inspiration or other niche supports. Suddenly, options open up that weren’t there before.

On theory, level 1 support gems sound weak. In practice and in math, they outperform the benefit of one skill level, which makes them a massive win for almost every archetype. Vaal skills are the exception, as they already carry inherent power, but non-Vaal skills gain compensation through the flexibility of a seventh link.

Another way to benefit from the imbue mechanic is using it on you secondary and utility skills like curses, movement skills, guard skills etc. Getting lifetap, arcane surge, faster attacks/casting etc. at level 1 on those can free up gem sockets to fit more utility, or even to make use of the Aul Bloodline notable.

It's hard to quantify the exact gains from this without making a complete PoB but it definitely opens up new avenues for build creation.

"

VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

... or you just want a completely busted tool that was never meant to exist in the game in order to enjoy it ...

It sounds to me like it's just this. Some people just want an "I WIN" button, and any semblance of what I might call "gameplay" is seen as a negative. And I'm not here to yuck anyone else's yum, but I would strongly suggest that those people stop pretending to speak for the entire player base.

Speaking just for myself here, if I wanted to be hilariously overpowered with zero thought investment and steamroll a laughably easy game simply by picking a clearly imbalanced skill, I'd reinstall Last Epoch.

"

twostroketom#5281 wrote:

Another way to benefit from the imbue mechanic is using it on you secondary and utility skills like curses, movement skills, guard skills etc. Getting lifetap, arcane surge, faster attacks/casting etc. at level 1 on those can free up gem sockets to fit more utility, or even to make use of the Aul Bloodline notable.

It's hard to quantify the exact gains from this without making a complete PoB but it definitely opens up new avenues for build creation.

This is honestly the way I think the system will see the most use, as soon as the Reddit hivemind realizes how much power 9-10 5-6 extra gem sockets on every build is. Because... well, it's a LOT of power. Everyone's pretending that the only application of these free supports is on your primary DPS 6L, and while that is going to be better than an extra gem level in many cases the thing which is going to be better in literally all cases is freeing up gem space in your various 3/4 socket items to make room for things like an extra CDWT or Automation setup, Animate Guardian, a second curse, extra auras, even abyss jewels.

unless the coin costs 4d and the prospect of hitting the correct support is like 1/14

given how rare various aspiration currencies are, coins most likely will be as rare as influenced exalts and drop from stuff you otherwise would not like to farm

and in cases such as these (like scarabs+T17) you price them vs the most efficient use - and that is main link in vast majority of cases.

sure, free sockets, lifetap or cwdt or even hexbloom - great options, i agree. i would gladly use such gems.

but GGG is known for teasing such options/tools and then making you farm for weeks to drop ONE

and once you drop it, check the price (5d) you have two options: you risk it on your main link (if it is compatible, many skills arent) or you sell it to people who play compatible skills fishing for that PCoC

what makes this slightly worse is - the resale value of failed rolls is minimal. that ground slam with 10-15 extra cold damage is worth exactly 1gcp at vendor

"

sidtherat#1310 wrote:

unless the coin costs 4d and the prospect of hitting the correct support is like 1/14

given how rare various aspiration currencies are, coins most likely will be as rare as influenced exalts and drop from stuff you otherwise would not like to farm

and in cases such as these (like scarabs+T17) you price them vs the most efficient use - and that is main link in vast majority of cases.

sure, free sockets, lifetap or cwdt or even hexbloom - great options, i agree. i would gladly use such gems.

but GGG is known for teasing such options/tools and then making you farm for weeks to drop ONE

and once you drop it, check the price (5d) you have two options: you risk it on your main link (if it is compatible, many skills arent) or you sell it to people who play compatible skills fishing for that PCoC

what makes this slightly worse is - the resale value of failed rolls is minimal. that ground slam with 10-15 extra cold damage is worth exactly 1gcp at vendor

Fair point, I don't think they will shower us in these things. In that case it will be more of a late game min-maxing option. Sell the coins you find and save up to buy your desired imbued gem later on. I plan on playing SSF, so I can slam away to my heart's content :) Just wanna make sure I have a backup for my main gem in case it bricks. Ele hit + Brutality kinda situation or something like that.

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One more point in the whole nerf discussion is that with T17s gone, the difficulty ceiling for farming content has been lowered significantly. You no longer need 100s of millions of DPS on top of mega tank and sustain. Former "A tier" builds will be perfectly capable of doing everything just as well.