Chaos damage and why it hurts the game in it's current form.

"

TechnoMage wrote:

wagh... my poor thread :(

Side note, glass cannons in POE still need a way to survive damage. You are going to get hurt. That's just the way it is in POE. How you mitigate or avoid that damage and deal damage back is a large part of what makes POE fun. There is huge diversity in the ways you can avoid damage of all types, except of course chaos damage. For that you need HP or Chaos resist. :)

Defenses not effected by chaos damage from AOE chaos damage monsters:
Block, Evasion, Energy shield, Elemental resist, Armour, Dodge, Movement speed, Minions, Endurance charges, Totems.
Defenses that effect/mitigate AOE Chaos damage:
Life, Chaos resist.

Moving out of AOE usually helps. I'm guessing you're talking about poison clouds? Btw, Energy Shield is defensively the same thing as Life. And totems do not take DoT damage from poison clouds.

"

Elynole wrote:

"

bhavv wrote:

Maybe, but then I will just say that if you're staying alive, then you arent killing things fast enough. If you are then the game is unbalanced and biased, which is my point all along.

If a player specced in DPS cant stay alive, then a player specced in defense shouldnt be able to kill anything.

You're correct.

A fully defensive spec'd player, not taking any nodes in DPS isn't going to kill things as fast.

A fully offensive spec'd player, not taking any nodes in defense isn't going to stay alive as long.

Those two things are true.

Thats not quite right.

- HP and Ele res (+ inner force circle) gives more bang for the buck as opposed to DPS nodes (only thing which comes near is Ele EQ) Almost every variable can be tweaked with help of gems be it crit chance/ multiplier, melee dmg or faster attks/ casting.

- Better gear better DPS - If you survive chances of finding better gear increase (thats true for HC and Def lvl 70+)

"

bhavv wrote:

"

Elynole wrote:

You're arguing now that you should be able to have 600-800 HP, be a glass cannon, and not get face rolled in merciless? This is laughable, you could get one shot by Vaal in Normal with those defenses.

WRONG.

Vaal beaten with a level 1 with under 250 HP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4LppRXmnq8

Not wrong, his melee attack does more than 250 damage. I said COULD be one shot.

"

Elynole wrote:

"

bhavv wrote:

"

Elynole wrote:

You're arguing now that you should be able to have 600-800 HP, be a glass cannon, and not get face rolled in merciless? This is laughable, you could get one shot by Vaal in Normal with those defenses.

WRONG.

Vaal beaten with a level 1 with under 250 HP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4LppRXmnq8

Not wrong, his melee attack does more than 250 damage. I said COULD be one shot.

Such a weak argument. That attack is the easiest thing to avoid in the game, and it *could* 1 hit kill you even if you only took HP nodes.

"

bhavv wrote:

BUT the game is biased then because the defensive specced character can kill everything in the game, but the offensive specced character cannot survive anything.

Do you see the point yet?

no i dont get the point yet

and i want to go out for a coffee

its the middle of winter

i think ill go run to the corner store naked. because i will get there faster than i could if i was wearing my coat and boots



good luck with your plight man. im out.





PS: when i get back ill post complaining about my frostbite.

"

bhavv wrote:

Such a weak argument. That attack is the easiest thing to avoid in the game, and it *could* 1 hit kill you even if you only took HP nodes.

A weak argument is arguing extremes.


Asking the 4th time. How would you balance the game around glass cannons? You've yet to answer this, which would be the whole point of your argument.

"

bhavv wrote:

"

Elynole wrote:

It truly amazes me how out of touch some people are with building correctly.

Define 'correctly'. Why isnt DPS, more DPS, and nothing but DPS correct? And if it isnt correct, then why shouldnt it be?

Because if you die, you'll dps will drop significant. And if you die faster...

I think if anything the game needs even more chaos damage. Why would I bother building for Chaos Inoculation if they weed out the things that made me want it in the first place? CI has already been nerfed drastically and getting rid of the baddies that use it would make it totally worthless.

"

Elynole wrote:

"

bhavv wrote:

Such a weak argument. That attack is the easiest thing to avoid in the game, and it *could* 1 hit kill you even if you only took HP nodes.

Asking the 4th time. How would you balance the game around glass cannons? You've yet to answer this, which would be the whole point of your argument.

By removing experience loss based death penalties, difficulty based chaos resistance penalties, and reducing mob damage and increasing mob HP and defenses.

First of all i want to start with a link,a definition:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glass%20cannon

Assuming that you all read the link,let's clear some things.

A glass cannon cannot afford to get hit,so to get this result,you need high mobility and high damage.
If you can't kill your opponent till he reaches you,then you need either more damage,more mobility or a distraction.
Examples of distractions : Decoy totem, Spell totem- Summon Skeletons, Allies (friends,group members).

Also you can use something like stun,bear trap to immobilize your opponent.
If you can't disable the opponent from hitting you,then chances are you are going to die. So build around good crowd control,and high damage.
That's what a glass cannon is.

Let's continue to the chaos resistance arguement.
Chaos resistances can't be holded back with armor, ES, not all of it can be avoided.
So you are left with 2 choices here. Either you get hp to absorb that damage and still be alive,or you get some chaos resistance and mitigate this kind of damage.

How to build a glass cannon which can deal with chaos damage? Get some resistances and a bit of hp.A bit! Not stack.

You don't even want to spend some effort on bringing a low amount of survivability on your character? Then use more crowd control,more distractions,or allies.

Since you don't want to get some defence in the form of resistance,armor,es,life,evasion plan ahead and see your option on what you can do to not get hit at all.

If you don't want to be a glass cannon,but not a tank too look at what Invalesco did. Against chaos resist even if he got 50.000 energy shield it would NOT matter. Also his life doesn't regen at all since only his energy shield did.
He got chaos resistances at 75. Not 80,not 90.
He got 2.000 points of life. With my "tanky" Ranger i got 2.300 at level 59. So at his level,with my rate i can get close to 3.000- 3.500 health.
So even without my life,and only 5-6 points invested into life you can be a good dps. And you can get MORE dps than me who spend 50 points in survivability.


TL:DR
Read the link,read what invalesco said, and understand the difference between a glass cannon,a dps,a tanky dps and a tank.