|
Exactly, i do T15+ maps for 1 hour+ and then die to some BS that you cant even see because the game is not even optimized and then -10%!!!! all that time is just wasted. Like this game does not respect your time at all. at level 95+ you need hours of grind to just go +10% and then you die to something you can't even SEE!!! The only sources i died to are literally BS that i could not avoid. its so fraustrating and makes you lose interest in game because it feels like you just wasted your time. Respect the players time please i dont have all day to play the game.
Last edited by Asylph#7752 on Jan 4, 2025, 12:00:24 PM
|
Posted byAsylph#7752on Jan 4, 2025, 12:00:04 PM
|
"
But losing all your runes and still not beating the boss you were fighting in a Souls game is nearly identical what happens in PoE2 except you don't lose all your progress to the next level (or potentially more in a Souls game) on death but can't pick it up again. You will have made 0 progress and potentially even have gone backwards...
How is the experience loss the main contributor to your feeling of 0 progress in one game but not the other?
edit: Obviously I don't mean you, Fhrek, since we've established you don't really mind the experience penalty.
I mean, it's obviously very different games. Loot is not random, enemies are not random, shit that can kill you off screen doesn't exist, traps are not random, etc. So when you die, you learn something. Also, losing souls is fairly rare since most of the time when you backtrack, you get to your corpse. And when you tackle a boss, you always go with nothing to lose.
Have I sometimes rage at a Souls game? Yeah sure, happens to all of us.
Do I have this feeling of "fuck, I just lost 2h of my time"? Never.
|
Posted byMera#2184on Jan 4, 2025, 12:20:10 PM
|
"
"
But losing all your runes and still not beating the boss you were fighting in a Souls game is nearly identical what happens in PoE2 except you don't lose all your progress to the next level (or potentially more in a Souls game) on death but can't pick it up again. You will have made 0 progress and potentially even have gone backwards...
How is the experience loss the main contributor to your feeling of 0 progress in one game but not the other?
edit: Obviously I don't mean you, Fhrek, since we've established you don't really mind the experience penalty.
I mean, it's obviously very different games. Loot is not random, enemies are not random, shit that can kill you off screen doesn't exist, traps are not random, etc. So when you die, you learn something. Also, losing souls is fairly rare since most of the time when you backtrack, you get to your corpse. And when you tackle a boss, you always go with nothing to lose.
Have I sometimes rage at a Souls game? Yeah sure, happens to all of us.
Do I have this feeling of "fuck, I just lost 2h of my time"? Never.
Yup. In PoE1, you enter a random map, get swamped by 300 mobs, start blasting and die cause some of those mobs turns out explode on death or have reflect.
Least PoE2 don't have reflect but there is still the explodes on death, including enemies that can explode corpses.
Not really much to learn other than that some map will just delete you no matter what.
|
Posted bymrfox123#7595on Jan 4, 2025, 12:34:45 PM
|
"
I mean, it's obviously very different games. Loot is not random, enemies are not random, shit that can kill you off screen doesn't exist, traps are not random, etc. So when you die, you learn something. Also, losing souls is fairly rare since most of the time when you backtrack, you get to your corpse. And when you tackle a boss, you always go with nothing to lose.
Have I sometimes rage at a Souls game? Yeah sure, happens to all of us.
Do I have this feeling of "fuck, I just lost 2h of my time"? Never.
Sure, but shit killing you off screen is a problem that needs to be fixed regardless. It wouldn't be better to remove the experience penalty and leave that. And you have the opportunity to learn something when you die, but you might not. You also have the opportunity to learn something when you die in PoE2 you just don't appreciate the lesson it's trying to teach you. I don't think you're necessarily wrong for not appreciating the particular lesson it's trying to teach you (I've already admitted to preferring skill checks to gear checks), I just think it's more important to get the endgame to a state where you don't mind losing experience because the process of earning it is fun and not just means to an end. And you can always wait to challenge bosses until you have nothing to lose in PoE as well. In both games, the closer you get to max level, the more difficult that becomes to do, you just seem to care less about achieving max level in a Souls game for some reason.
|
Posted bydrkekyll#1294on Jan 4, 2025, 12:36:49 PM
|
"
The main reason there's penalties is so players actually develop skills and feel rewarded for hitting level 95+, especially level 100.
Without penalty, noobies like you would be able to just grind t1 whites for 500 hours to achieve that goal.
That is what we call gatekeeping.
Also, if someone has made it to level 75+ and they are going out of their way to go onto a message board and leave a comment, they are not a noob. They are obviously care about gaming, otherwise they wouldn't have stuck it out that long.
It would seem, however, that GGG seems to agree with you because they probably aren't going let other people into the club.
In reality, he is expressing a desire for difficulty tiers. A thing that has existed in games for a VERY LONG TIME. Something that GGG offers on paper, but fails to execute in practice because GGG appears to be dead set on catering to people like you out of fear you'll turn their back on them.
Which is frustrating, because, as I said, that is what difficulty tiers are for. You want death penalties, play in hardcore. What other players do in other modes shouldn't be any concern of yours.
|
Posted bySkyPrince30#4110on Jan 4, 2025, 12:53:11 PM
|
"
Which is frustrating, because, as I said, that is what difficulty tiers are for. You want death penalties, play in hardcore. What other players do in other modes shouldn't be any concern of yours.
you rly tell him he should play another mode because he likes a core game mechanic thats in place since the first days of poe? while you want it to be changed because you dont understand why its there and dont like it?
how about you playing something else instead of wanting a game to change to the worse in order to please you.
|
Posted byPl4t1numX#4325on Jan 4, 2025, 1:05:32 PM
|
"
I've never understood people who like to play hardcore or who like death penalty. But that's their business, I don't care. In the same way, they shouldn't care that I like to relax in peace after a hard day's work by playing a video game.
Competition? What a joke. 99% of the time you play alone. Watch less twitch because streamers get money for it. It doesn't really matter to me which one comes first, because I only care about how I spend my personal time. I have enough hardcore in real life, why should I feel punished and stressed about some virtual world that I come to have a good time.
Do you need a challenge? Play hardcore, the game is already brutal enough. In Diablo 2, I was only able to reach max level once. Does it matter to me now? Not much. I only remember how many sleepless nights were spent and how tiring and monotonous the process was. Nothing pleasant. In PoE I played until maybe level 98, then quit, for the same reason. Otherwise, I might have played for years and spent a lot of money, because PoE is one of those few games where you really want to support the developers for their amazing work. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks like that, I think a good number of players think like that, maybe even the majority. At the end of the day, ask yourself who will support you if you mercilessly punish your players for every little mistake in this already merciless game.
When I saw the opportunity, I bought PoE2 without a second thought, hoping to find a different, much more enjoyable approach to the gameplay. And what did I found here? Even more brutal mechanics, even more punishments for the player, even less room for error.
It's not dark souls and it's not a roguelike and I'm not living in the 1980s. I recently showed a friend PoE and he and his son were very interested, but I can see them playing without understanding 90% of the game because the game mechanics are already complicated enough for a new player. Most of them would not even be able to make their own build without the help of the internet. Ask yourself how many of these players will remain when they face the true reality of the game.
Keep punishing until you punish yourself. I hope to be heard, and I hope I'm not alone. If not, good luck to you, there are much nicer things in life to spend my money on.
Well put +1
|
Posted byPhillipBurns#5461on Jan 4, 2025, 1:20:54 PM
|
"
The main reason there's penalties is so players actually develop skills and feel rewarded for hitting level 95+, especially level 100.
Without penalty, noobies like you would be able to just grind t1 whites for 500 hours to achieve that goal.
Literally anyone that gets to endgame can go back and safely farm white t1 maps indefinitely for experience.
That is the whole problem. Level 100 doesnt require attention, or challenging content. It's just a time gated grind of doing easy content punching below your stats.
Nobody pushing 99-100 is "juicing" for experience. Because juicing and adding difficulty, does not add experience gains.
It's baked into the affix design. Adding difficult mods to the map adds Waystone drop chance. nothing else. (Unless your doing a map mod effect atlas, but i highly doubt anyone farming exp is running those danger nodes for loot.)
Last edited by iadapt#7831 on Jan 4, 2025, 1:25:52 PM
|
Posted byiadapt#7831on Jan 4, 2025, 1:22:03 PM
|
|
a penalty just translates to 0.2% of playerbase makes it to level 100.
how is that good design?
you want the game to be replayable for people not this.
|
Posted bytoxiitea#5772on Jan 4, 2025, 1:24:08 PM
|
|
Maybe make a character that isn't a gimp
|
Posted byWormabutter#4288on Jan 4, 2025, 1:28:28 PM
|
