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TLDR; the illusion of weight and friction lends authenticity or verisimilitude.
And at it's core, that's really, really bad game design.
The greatest games ever made all use concepts like those to some degree or another but link us to your all time classic game by all means. Lets see what a real master can do.
You first. Lets see YOUR chops to make such bold claims.
Last edited by Doomhammer5#4010 on Jan 10, 2025, 9:07:10 PM
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Posted byDoomhammer5#4010on Jan 10, 2025, 9:06:37 PM
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Mash the clean
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Posted byMashgesture#2912on Jan 10, 2025, 9:09:22 PMOn Probation
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D3 still gets over 3 million active monthly players vs. PoE 2's <500k. Clearly they did something right.
WAT?!
D3 has 23 twitch viewer as I type this... Ultima ONline from 1997 is more than doubling it up.
Where did you get those numbers from? D3 is almost entirely a dead game.
Not that popularity matters. Its the old "McDonalds sells more hamburgers than Gorden Ramsey" argument. But I'm pretty sure you're just wrong.
Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4.
If they wanted mindless mobile game time waster gameplay they sure did make some perplexing choices and marketing statements for 6 fucking years.
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Posted byalhazred70#2994on Jan 10, 2025, 9:10:24 PM
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TLDR; the illusion of weight and friction lends authenticity or verisimilitude.
And at it's core, that's really, really bad game design.
The greatest games ever made all use concepts like those to some degree or another but link us to your all time classic game by all means. Lets see what a real master can do.
The bestselling video game of all time is Minecraft.
Every object in Minecraft occupies a single 1x1 inventory space.
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Posted byXenus_Paradox#7530on Jan 10, 2025, 9:11:34 PM
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D3 still gets over 3 million active monthly players vs. PoE 2's <500k. Clearly they did something right.
more people flock towards dumb, easy things, naturally.
Oh, I see. Less players = better game.
So clearly Last Epoch > PoE 2.
Following the trail of using dumb arguments: Candy Crush > Diablo 3.
It takes just a little goodwill to agree on a point that in general, products appealing to wide audience won't appeal to those with specialised needs, and that there are also plain bad products.
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Posted byAliquamGames#5952on Jan 10, 2025, 9:12:37 PM
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Not that popularity matters. Its the old "McDonalds sells more hamburgers than Gorden Ramsey" argument. But I'm pretty sure you're just wrong.
hahaha I love that you just said that. I used a very similar analogy in one of my last posts to that same comment.
He doesn't get that stupid game design is very attractive. Gacha games and idle games regularly capture millions of people....but they are basically AI generated crap with no actual "game" other than watching a clock.
Meanwhile, trailblazing and challenging and objectively "good" games tend to be less attractive because they require more effort.
Starting anew....with PoE 2 Last edited by cowmoo275#3095 on Jan 10, 2025, 9:13:49 PM
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Posted bycowmoo275#3095on Jan 10, 2025, 9:13:09 PM
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you're another person who offers nothing about the post just to say "d4 bad"
how is identifying or being able to hold less than 6 staffs make poe2 a deeper game?
Its actually not that hard to puzzle out why things are designed the way they are. There's whole manifestoes on the POE1 site if you're actually intellectually curious and want to learn.
Chris Wilson has a GDC ted talk on the design of POE and he literally talks about item sizes and inventory. Restrictions force choices, choices make the loot feel like its has more weight or importance. Also you have to make inventory choices sooner or later, if its too big it feels inauthentic and thus less convincingly important. Its also means you have long "inventory sorting sessions". There are pros and cons to too little and too big.
TLDR; the illusion of weight and friction lends authenticity or verisimilitude.
I can prove this: lost Arc.
Where 1x1 space no matter how "heavy" or "large" loot is autopickup vacuumed intoa multi page inventory to become a nameless unimportant blur that are automatically dismantled for insignificant currency that doesn't even add up to anything.
You could delete 99.9999% of items in that game and no one would even notice and the game would just improve by a small amount.
Light weight no friction. No one cares about your loot, your gameplay loop is cheapened. No surprises in the loot, no cool factor, no dopamine hits.
One makes your loot system trash, the other HELPS people care about your loot system.
Take a guess which one does what.
Now why does it work this way? Because of human nature: we care less about easy things and we care more about hard to do/obtain things. This extends to game design and is essentially the foundation of why we care about gaming.
"easy come easy go".
Why are you here playing this game instead Windows Minesweeper? Because no one gives a shit about that game?
Okay why not play D4 which has all the "QoL" and low friction game design the OP wants? Oh same answer...
I wonder why.
I've watched Chris' GDC speed multiple times. Adding friction points is great when it lends weight to actions you're actually performing in the game. Managing an inventory is one example. Pulling levers is another, surprisingly. The problem is when there's too MUCH friction that gets in the way of enjoying the game (like the sheer length of time needed to pull the Augury levers, which can't be canceled) or when the friction disrupts a menial task that you will do over and over again (tapping the well every time you're in town, sifting through dozens of low-tier maps that you will never run).
Game friction is a careful balance between adding weight to decisions and being a plain old inconvenience. Many of the game design decisions made in PoE2 are the latter.
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Posted byGwonam#5505on Jan 10, 2025, 9:13:32 PM
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Just wait for all the nerfs they will announce on sunday so we can truly experience their ruthless 2.0 vision.
...or rather pray for the next poe1 league.
Sitting in HO spamming alts for 4 hours straight is peak PoE gameplay. Thanks, Chris.
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Posted byYdoum#5726on Jan 10, 2025, 9:15:55 PM
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Truth be told I was expecting GGG to fail in same things like in PoE1 like enemies having not enough HP but doing a lot of damage so best tactic is to clear the screen before they can attack, or ground loot being useless so using terrible trading system being only chance to get useful gear or fun boss fights in endgame being hidden behind everything instead of giving us fun lesser versions to fight like during War for the Atlas (Elder vs Shaper) that are easy to access or lots of unfun maps to run with either bad layout or bad enemy numbers..
But I was hoping new combat system and lots of boss fights would kind of make it more fun. And it does for about 1.5 Acts in Campaign and then it slowly starts turning into same PoE1 experience that I quit a while back.
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same thing over and over again? coming from you?!?!?!
If you ever bothered to read ANYONE's responses to you, you'd comprehend a lot more.
Nearly every time I've commented in threads, I hAVE been critical about many aspects of this game.
But I know because you are ALSO in every thread....that you don't like to read.
Not that I really need to defend myself but.....I play the game for an hour or two, then I turn it off. While doing other things, I read and post in the forums. My life doesn't revolve around playing the game 12 hours a day, I have a job, I have a life. But typing and reading takes very little effort and can easily be done while doing other things.
Unlike you who seems to hate every possible thing about this game, I do not and so I follow and comment in a lot of threads.
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how is this
more people flock towards dumb, easy things, naturally. There's no thinking involved in D3, and there is a HUGE population that loves that.
They came here and are in this thread, and haven't quite understood yet that PoE is nothing like that, and never will be."
being critical of what OP says about identifying items or only being able to hold 6 staffs.
I mention how you can get a quest Item being 3x5 there's no QC and that could easily be addressed, you say
that PoE is nothing like that
imagine you still not realizing this is a poe2 feedback section
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Posted bytoxiitea#5772on Jan 10, 2025, 9:16:40 PM
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