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you're another person who offers nothing about the post just to say "d4 bad"
how is identifying or being able to hold less than 6 staffs make poe2 a deeper game?
Its actually not that hard to puzzle out why things are designed the way they are. There's whole manifestoes on the POE1 site if you're actually intellectually curious and want to learn.
Chris Wilson has a GDC ted talk on the design of POE and he literally talks about item sizes and inventory. Restrictions force choices, choices make the loot feel like its has more weight or importance. Also you have to make inventory choices sooner or later, if its too big it feels inauthentic and thus less convincingly important. Its also means you have long "inventory sorting sessions". There are pros and cons to too little and too big.
TLDR; the illusion of weight and friction lends authenticity or verisimilitude.
I can prove this: lost Arc.
Where 1x1 space no matter how "heavy" or "large" loot is autopickup vacuumed intoa multi page inventory to become a nameless unimportant blur that are automatically dismantled for insignificant currency that doesn't even add up to anything.
You could delete 99.9999% of items in that game and no one would even notice and the game would just improve by a small amount.
Light weight no friction. No one cares about your loot, your gameplay loop is cheapened. No surprises in the loot, no cool factor, no dopamine hits.
One makes your loot system trash, the other HELPS people care about your loot system.
Take a guess which one does what.
Now why does it work this way? Because of human nature: we care less about easy things and we care more about hard to do/obtain things. This extends to game design and is essentially the foundation of why we care about gaming.
"easy come easy go".
Why are you here playing this game instead Windows Minesweeper? Because no one gives a shit about that game?
Okay why not play D4 which has all the "QoL" and low friction game design the OP wants? Oh same answer...
I wonder why.
Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4.
If they wanted mindless mobile game time waster gameplay they sure did make some perplexing choices and marketing statements for 6 fucking years. Last edited by alhazred70#2994 on Jan 10, 2025, 8:31:25 PM
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Posted byalhazred70#2994on Jan 10, 2025, 8:28:53 PM
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Haha, between the death penalty whining and this what a hilarious forum. Think you guys need to go back to Diablo4 or a mobile game. I heard they're making a new ARPG that wipes your ass for you, might be right up everyone's alley. No PvP, no death penalty, everything is best in slot already identified on the floor and you don't have to think or move even once!
It’s remarkable how many people come to the early access feedback forum to decry anyone providing feedback that might make the game better. Did you actually read the OP? Do you honestly believe that tier 1 waystones dropping in tier 15+ maps makes the game more fun somehow?
You clowns show up in every post that provides any sort of criticism and your only argument is “it it what it is because it’s always been that way”. If it were up to people like you we’d all still be shitting in a field somewhere. The old way’s fine. Why improve?
I will reveal it to you that the clownism is done out of feeling of powerlesness when met with people who are unable to think holistically about the systems presented before them in the game and are trapped in their own cages of short-sighted dopamine chasing.
"Do you honestly believe that tier 1 waystones dropping in tier 15+ maps makes the game more fun somehow?"
The question that you have asked underlines what I have wrote - you focus on single, as modern depraved Gaming Industry Experts would name, pain points and are focused on your own feelings of disappointment and annoyance. You seem to be incapable understanding that there isn't a decision "make no maps tier 1 drop in maps tier 15" to be made, there is a lot of decisions resulting from that, all choices desirable, as I presume, by you would plunge this game into the direction that is despised and hated by many members of this community. Direction of auto-sorting equipment, direction of reducing your responsibility, giving you highlighted quest trailers and markers, everything that makes current mainstream gaming industry feeling with varying degrees of intensity, as tasteless slop designed to follow lowest common denominator.
In other words, you come to cheese tasting facility and express that everything here tastes like shit because mcdonalds tastes better and is liked by more people.
I want pleasure from victory coming from solving patterns, you want pleasure coming from pseudo-victory coming from participation.
Last edited by AliquamGames#5952 on Jan 10, 2025, 8:33:55 PM
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Posted byAliquamGames#5952on Jan 10, 2025, 8:31:38 PM
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Haha, between the death penalty whining and this what a hilarious forum. Think you guys need to go back to Diablo4 or a mobile game. I heard they're making a new ARPG that wipes your ass for you, might be right up everyone's alley. No PvP, no death penalty, everything is best in slot already identified on the floor and you don't have to think or move even once!
It’s remarkable how many people come to the early access feedback forum to decry anyone providing feedback that might make the game better. Did you actually read the OP? Do you honestly believe that tier 1 waystones dropping in tier 15+ maps makes the game more fun somehow?
You clowns show up in every post that provides any sort of criticism and your only argument is “it it what it is because it’s always been that way”. If it were up to people like you we’d all still be shitting in a field somewhere. The old way’s fine. Why improve?
I will reveal it to you that the clownism is done out of feeling of powerlesness when met with people who are unable to think holistically about the systems presented before them in the game and are trapped in their own cages of short-sighted dopamine chasing.
"Do you honestly believe that tier 1 waystones dropping in tier 15+ maps makes the game more fun somehow?"
The question that you have asked underlines what I have wrote - you focus on single, as modern depraved Gaming Industry Experts would name, pain points and are focused on your own feelings of disappointment and annoyance. You seem to be incapable understanding that there isn't a decision "make no maps tier 1 drop in maps tier 15" to be made, there is a lot of decisions resulting from that, all choices desirable, as I presume, by you would plunge this game into the direction that is despised and hated by many members of this community. Direction of auto-sorting equipment, direction of reducing your responsibility, giving you highlighted quest trailers and markers, everything that makes current mainstream gaming industry feeling with varying degrees of intensity, as tasteless slop designed to follow lowest common denominator.
In other words, you come to cheese tasting facility and express that everything here tastes like shit because mcdonalds tastes better and is liked by more people.
I want pleasure from victory coming from solving patterns, you want pleasure coming from pseudo-victory coming from participation.
Slippery Slope Fallacy: The post.
Progressively culling low level waystone droprates from higher tier maps has nothing to do with anything you wrote. Touch grass.
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Posted byfouquet#0993on Jan 10, 2025, 8:35:33 PM
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You are assuming the design makes you constantly juggle items around. That's on me for not mentioning it. But the game I was referring to allowed a big inventory, a high weight capacity, so you are never juggling stuff around unless you're carrying a ridiculous amount of useless stuff.
As to alphabetical listing, it is what that game did because it didn't have affixes and suffixes. If POE2 was to implement a list, it could very well implement a grouped list, a tabbed list, even custom lists that suit each player's preferences at different points of progression.
A list could also sort by item base, since you would never want to sort by full name of item anyways. It's these obvious things that make or break an inventory system.
Also, the reason anyone has to juggle items around in any game (and you have to in POE2 as well, and constantly) is because of the tiny capacity. It is not because of the presentation of your inventory, but the capacity.
So a bigger capacity, and customizable presentation will result in a much better inventory.
Bottom line, inventory management in this game is very vanilla. Note I'm talking about inventory, not stash. The two problems being (1) tiny capacity that doesn't make the game better in any way; and (2) added manual micro-management due to the additional spatial element of positioning items with different shapes on a grid.
I get it....I just can't wrap my mind around why you would prefer that system over literally anything else. You are also speaking as a person presumably with experience with that game AND that inventory. If something like that were implemented here, you can bet that massive amounts of players will constantly have that thing full or near-full and will have to play the same tetris except now with a 100 or 1000 items to sift through instead of just maybe 10. This is actually more cumbersome, and grown out of old text-based game inventories with search functions.
If we ever approach a system like the one you describe, they should just let us access our stash from everywhere.
Starting anew....with PoE 2
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Posted bycowmoo275#3095on Jan 10, 2025, 8:37:06 PM
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Its actually not that hard to puzzle out why things are designed the way they are. There's whole manifestoes on the POE1 site if you're actually intellectually curious and want to learn.
Chris Wilson has a GDC ted talk on the design of POE and he literally talks about item sizes and inventory. Restrictions force choices, choices make the loot feel like its has more weight or importance. Also you have to make inventory choices sooner or later, if its too big it feels inauthentic and thus less convincingly important. Its also means you have long "inventory sorting sessions". There are pros and cons to too little and too big.
TLDR; the illusion of weight and friction lends authenticity or verisimilitude.
I can prove this: lost Arc.
Where 1x1 space no matter how "heavy" or "large" loot is autopickup vacuumed intoa multi page inventory to become a nameless unimportant blur that are automatically dismantled for insignificant currency that doesn't even add up to anything.
You could delete 99.9999% of items in that game and no one would even notice and the game would just improve by a small amount.
Light weight no friction. No one cares about your loot, your gameplay loop is cheapened. No surprises in the loot, no cool factor, no dopamine hits.
One makes your loot system trash, the other HELPS people care about your loot system.
Take a guess which one does what.
Now why does it work this way? Because of human nature: we care less about easy things and we care more about hard to do/obtain things. This extends to game design and is essentially the foundation of why we care about gaming.
"easy come easy go".
Why are you hear playing this game instead Windows Minesweeper? Because no one gives a shit about that game?
Okay why not play D4 which has all the "QoL" and low friction game design the OP wants? Oh same answer...
I wonder why.
dude you wrote so much to begin by starting off talking about a manifesto about poe1
this is a feedback section about poe2. Great to see you're so invested in poe1 by brining up information about that game! Thankfully the settlers league is still going where you can put your illustrious skills to the test.
Poe2 is marketed as a different game. You wrote so much to talk about a old manifesto on someone else's opinion. let's try and form our own opinions. Putting people on these pedestals only creates echo chambers like these where flocks of people come to tell you d4 bad lol
you still haven't said why YOU think it makes the game deeper by identifying items and holding less than 6 staffs. all I hear is "some dude said it should be this way and I never formed my own opinion."
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Posted bytoxiitea#5772on Jan 10, 2025, 8:39:51 PM
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They're also acting like Diablo 3 doesn't exist when it did quite a bit right.
Hard stop: Diablo 3 was absolutely awful in every possible way (when compared with PoE 1 or 2).....with the exception of how it dealt with skipping the campaign on a second playthrough.
Itemization? Terrible. Sets dominated. Few uniques were key. All stats were basic
Replayability? Non-existent. Build 1 barbarian, you never have to build another
Endgame? Dreadful and pretty much non-existent.
Stash and storage? Horrendous. Minimal storage in both the stash and hand.
Gameplay? boring, easy, and terrible. Completely thoughtless play with minimal build choices.
Balance? Garbage. Both on monsters and players. Whatever set you dropped is what you played.
Variety? non-existent. Each class had pretty much 2 or 3 copypaste builds because of the itemization.
We like to hate on D4, but I actually think D3 was far worse...and that's saying something. D3 was only ever good between the closing of the AH and befor the release of RoS and the travesty known as "smart loot".
Starting anew....with PoE 2 Last edited by cowmoo275#3095 on Jan 10, 2025, 8:46:14 PM
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Posted bycowmoo275#3095on Jan 10, 2025, 8:40:39 PM
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Slippery Slope Fallacy: The post.
Progressively culling low level waystone droprates from higher tier maps has nothing to do with anything you wrote. Touch grass.
It has very much to do with the topics of value, reward and guaranteed reward. As said, you seem lazy enough to not wanting to see the connections here.
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Posted byAliquamGames#5952on Jan 10, 2025, 8:46:14 PM
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They're also acting like Diablo 3 doesn't exist when it did quite a bit right.
Diablo 3 was absolutely awful in every possible way (when compared with PoE 1 or 2).....with the exception of how it dealt with skipping the campaign on a second playthrough.
D3 still gets over 3 million active monthly players vs. PoE 2's <500k. Clearly they did something right.
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Posted byXenus_Paradox#7530on Jan 10, 2025, 8:49:29 PM
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Its actually not that hard to puzzle out why things are designed the way they are. There's whole manifestoes on the POE1 site if you're actually intellectually curious and want to learn.
Chris Wilson has a GDC ted talk on the design of POE and he literally talks about item sizes and inventory. Restrictions force choices, choices make the loot feel like its has more weight or importance. Also you have to make inventory choices sooner or later, if its too big it feels inauthentic and thus less convincingly important. Its also means you have long "inventory sorting sessions". There are pros and cons to too little and too big.
TLDR; the illusion of weight and friction lends authenticity or verisimilitude.
I can prove this: lost Arc.
Where 1x1 space no matter how "heavy" or "large" loot is autopickup vacuumed intoa multi page inventory to become a nameless unimportant blur that are automatically dismantled for insignificant currency that doesn't even add up to anything.
You could delete 99.9999% of items in that game and no one would even notice and the game would just improve by a small amount.
Light weight no friction. No one cares about your loot, your gameplay loop is cheapened. No surprises in the loot, no cool factor, no dopamine hits.
One makes your loot system trash, the other HELPS people care about your loot system.
Take a guess which one does what.
Now why does it work this way? Because of human nature: we care less about easy things and we care more about hard to do/obtain things. This extends to game design and is essentially the foundation of why we care about gaming.
"easy come easy go".
Why are you here playing this game instead Windows Minesweeper? Because no one gives a shit about that game?
Okay why not play D4 which has all the "QoL" and low friction game design the OP wants? Oh same answer...
I wonder why.
Yes to all of that! Shame it will fall on deaf and unwilling/unable to comprehend ears.
Starting anew....with PoE 2
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Posted bycowmoo275#3095on Jan 10, 2025, 8:52:31 PM
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TLDR; the illusion of weight and friction lends authenticity or verisimilitude.
And at it's core, that's really, really bad game design.
GGG never really learned how to balance the game, so they keep relying on cheap tactics to make the game longer instead of harder. PoE2 made all that worse. Crafting, if we can even call that, is a joke, on death effects which was "the only way they could kill the player in PoE1" is still present in PoE2, meaning they still haven't learned their lesson, but now with invisible on death effects, and endgame in PoE2 virtually plays the same as PoE1.
Oh, scammers and price fixing got worse too. Seems like no lesson was learned and they should've just made PoE2 and PoE1 the same endgame, as originaly promissed btw.
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Posted byZ3RoNightMare#7140on Jan 10, 2025, 8:53:31 PM
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