GGG arrogance is killing both games

"

stearnix#4567 wrote:

As a player of both Poe 1 & 2 who discovered the license with the early access in 0.1 and since then have been addicted to both games every league and with every league i feel like GGG has become more and more out of touch with the playerbase.

First of all, i'm not really going to talk much about poe 1 since i'm still bad at the game but the 2 last leagues weren't good.
Mercenaries was well received because it offered the possibility of new builds while also giving a base +25% loot bonus as you had another character with you but this league was only good because the base game was good, not because of the league mechanic.

as for keepers... somehow they thought we needed a loot nerf while also making the league mechanic only good for the campaign and complete garbage for maps. we also received a "loot buff" mid league when people complained, which barely changed anything.

i'm talking about those because it feels like it's the same pattern for Poe 2.
somehow, after all the complaints, GGG still does not understand that what makes people play their game is the loot drop and the current league was proof of that, people kept playing poe 2 despite it's numerous flaws.
and now let's talk about the flaws of Poe2

first of all the layouts
The maps are horrible, they're the worst aspect of poe 2 be it in the campaign or endgame. They're too big and their generation is just horrible, having lots and lots of small corridors and dead ends. coupled with the facts that we have no movespeed it's really frustating.

People have been complaining about it since 0.1 and we got a nerf to it as they used to be even more horrible than now somehow.

The movespeed
This is also something players have been complaining about since 0.1 and we had a little buff to it thanks to the movespeed runes and essence of increased effect on boots. But somehow GGG thought it was a good idea to nerf it in 0.4 while also, in the interview not understanding what people wanted about move speed.
"What do people want more of it ? less of it ? i don't understand" which is what Mark said during the interview.

The builds
In 0.1 we had a lot of build variety. since then they've nerfed/killed most of the interactions (hexblast my beloved) and made combos necessary.
now i have no problem using combos to boost the damage of my abilities in the campaign of even against bosses but the problem is when those combos become necessary to use a skill or do damage at all.
this is something we should solve with player progression and not GGG killing skills interactions. When i do hundreds of maps i don't want to press combos for pack of white and blue mobs my main skills should be able to kill them and, on higher budget, even rares.
Their unwillingness to give such progression is just boring as we're stuck with the same skills and no way to progress.

The defenses
Lmao
you have a high punitive game where we lose the map, loot,exp and have to rerun the map we just lost to progress the atlas.
you would expect such a punitive game to have a lot of defenses options, but somehow, they're worse than poe 1 where we have 6 portals a map.
Passive tree
it's just damage,barely at that

Endgame
This is one of the biggest problem of poe2, which is going to be adressed in 0.5 but seeing how they managed this league and last poe1 league i don't have much hope for it.
there is no loot, maps are just boring coupled with the fact that they're immense and that there is barely any mob in it. No one wants to run maps they're just pain.
coupled with the fact that you cannot choose your layout and that if you die ONCE in a map (because let's be honest, you already barely have anything dropping in your map so you have to run 3 tablets everytime to get something out of it) you do not lose only xp (which i think is normal) but you lose the loot and then you have to RERUN the empty map to progress your infinite atlas tree.
This is where it gets bad because it's a layered punishement with the no movespeed and horrible layout and map generation. There is no fun in that it just makes us lose out time for nothing.

All of those problems have been a core issue since 0.1 but somehow GGG never listened to our feedback and only did the things they felt like it seems like they barely listen to anything we say and believe their vision of the game is the only correct one and that all the playerbase is wrong about it and seeing the current hotfix about temple. it proves that they don't know what they're doing nor what kind of game they're making.
with all those decisions not only do they punish the experienced players but also the casuals by not respecting both of these player's time and fulfilling both the casual and experienced player's expectation are not exclusive, we can have a fulfilling end game while also a satisfying gameplay for casuals.
But somehow GGG isn't interested in fixing all of that, the impression they gave me is that they do not care about our opinion, we do not get any interview anymore since 0.2 zizaran for some reason (lmao). They only want the game like they envision it, not for the casual, not for the experienced player only for the developpers.
And as a player who love the game, this is infuritating because poe 2 could be such a good game and Poe1 has the solution to many of those problems but somehow they ignore poe 1 seeing it as lesser and a worse game than their poe 2 baby. But the truth is Poe1 is still by far the superior game and i'm saying that by being a poe 2 player first.
I'm not saying to turn poe 2 into poe 1 but poe 1 probably faced the same problems before and they refuse to look at the solutions that they can take out of poe 1, that are compatible with poe 2 and put them into the game.

TL;DR:
GGG feels increasingly out of touch with players. PoE2 repeats PoE1’s recent mistakes: loot scarcity, overly punishing mechanics, and ignoring long-standing feedback. Maps are huge, maze-like, slow, and unrewarding; movespeed is still too low (and even nerfed); build variety is worse with forced combos; defenses are weak despite harsh death penalties; passive tree is bland; endgame is boring, empty, and wastes player time. These issues have existed since 0.1, but GGG prioritizes their “vision” over player feedback. PoE2 could be great, but refusing to learn from PoE1’s solutions is holding it back.

"

Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

"

Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

Unless they bring the speed back, this game is dead to me.

And that's why you still linger on its forum I suppose.

"

Johny_Snow#4778 wrote:

There are, and I am not kidding, people who want us to spend minutes on fighting a single enemy. Damage cap. Movement speed cap. Gameplay based purely on dodging one shots. These people weren't here during PoE 1. It is rather frightening.

"

saashaa#5518 wrote:

"

stearnix#4567 wrote:

As a player of both Poe 1 & 2 who discovered the license with the early access in 0.1 and since then have been addicted to both games every league and with every league i feel like GGG has become more and more out of touch with the playerbase.

First of all, i'm not really going to talk much about poe 1 since i'm still bad at the game but the 2 last leagues weren't good.
Mercenaries was well received because it offered the possibility of new builds while also giving a base +25% loot bonus as you had another character with you but this league was only good because the base game was good, not because of the league mechanic.

as for keepers... somehow they thought we needed a loot nerf while also making the league mechanic only good for the campaign and complete garbage for maps. we also received a "loot buff" mid league when people complained, which barely changed anything.

i'm talking about those because it feels like it's the same pattern for Poe 2.
somehow, after all the complaints, GGG still does not understand that what makes people play their game is the loot drop and the current league was proof of that, people kept playing poe 2 despite it's numerous flaws.
and now let's talk about the flaws of Poe2

first of all the layouts
The maps are horrible, they're the worst aspect of poe 2 be it in the campaign or endgame. They're too big and their generation is just horrible, having lots and lots of small corridors and dead ends. coupled with the facts that we have no movespeed it's really frustating.

People have been complaining about it since 0.1 and we got a nerf to it as they used to be even more horrible than now somehow.

The movespeed
This is also something players have been complaining about since 0.1 and we had a little buff to it thanks to the movespeed runes and essence of increased effect on boots. But somehow GGG thought it was a good idea to nerf it in 0.4 while also, in the interview not understanding what people wanted about move speed.
"What do people want more of it ? less of it ? i don't understand" which is what Mark said during the interview.

The builds
In 0.1 we had a lot of build variety. since then they've nerfed/killed most of the interactions (hexblast my beloved) and made combos necessary.
now i have no problem using combos to boost the damage of my abilities in the campaign of even against bosses but the problem is when those combos become necessary to use a skill or do damage at all.
this is something we should solve with player progression and not GGG killing skills interactions. When i do hundreds of maps i don't want to press combos for pack of white and blue mobs my main skills should be able to kill them and, on higher budget, even rares.
Their unwillingness to give such progression is just boring as we're stuck with the same skills and no way to progress.

The defenses
Lmao
you have a high punitive game where we lose the map, loot,exp and have to rerun the map we just lost to progress the atlas.
you would expect such a punitive game to have a lot of defenses options, but somehow, they're worse than poe 1 where we have 6 portals a map.
Passive tree
it's just damage,barely at that

Endgame
This is one of the biggest problem of poe2, which is going to be adressed in 0.5 but seeing how they managed this league and last poe1 league i don't have much hope for it.
there is no loot, maps are just boring coupled with the fact that they're immense and that there is barely any mob in it. No one wants to run maps they're just pain.
coupled with the fact that you cannot choose your layout and that if you die ONCE in a map (because let's be honest, you already barely have anything dropping in your map so you have to run 3 tablets everytime to get something out of it) you do not lose only xp (which i think is normal) but you lose the loot and then you have to RERUN the empty map to progress your infinite atlas tree.
This is where it gets bad because it's a layered punishement with the no movespeed and horrible layout and map generation. There is no fun in that it just makes us lose out time for nothing.

All of those problems have been a core issue since 0.1 but somehow GGG never listened to our feedback and only did the things they felt like it seems like they barely listen to anything we say and believe their vision of the game is the only correct one and that all the playerbase is wrong about it and seeing the current hotfix about temple. it proves that they don't know what they're doing nor what kind of game they're making.
with all those decisions not only do they punish the experienced players but also the casuals by not respecting both of these player's time and fulfilling both the casual and experienced player's expectation are not exclusive, we can have a fulfilling end game while also a satisfying gameplay for casuals.
But somehow GGG isn't interested in fixing all of that, the impression they gave me is that they do not care about our opinion, we do not get any interview anymore since 0.2 zizaran for some reason (lmao). They only want the game like they envision it, not for the casual, not for the experienced player only for the developpers.
And as a player who love the game, this is infuritating because poe 2 could be such a good game and Poe1 has the solution to many of those problems but somehow they ignore poe 1 seeing it as lesser and a worse game than their poe 2 baby. But the truth is Poe1 is still by far the superior game and i'm saying that by being a poe 2 player first.
I'm not saying to turn poe 2 into poe 1 but poe 1 probably faced the same problems before and they refuse to look at the solutions that they can take out of poe 1, that are compatible with poe 2 and put them into the game.

TL;DR:
GGG feels increasingly out of touch with players. PoE2 repeats PoE1’s recent mistakes: loot scarcity, overly punishing mechanics, and ignoring long-standing feedback. Maps are huge, maze-like, slow, and unrewarding; movespeed is still too low (and even nerfed); build variety is worse with forced combos; defenses are weak despite harsh death penalties; passive tree is bland; endgame is boring, empty, and wastes player time. These issues have existed since 0.1, but GGG prioritizes their “vision” over player feedback. PoE2 could be great, but refusing to learn from PoE1’s solutions is holding it back.

Players wanted this to be slower and meaningful/ methodical in late game
no one yapped around about slow walking speed unless some casual

and they target casuals making hardcore game for casuals which have no sense..
GGG lost it's mind and splitted entire fan-base in parts


game need to be slower but so much casuals come here and yap about dopamine addiction with no quality to just hold one button and zoom

"

JarlaxleDaerthe#2435 wrote:

"

Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

"

Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

Unless they bring the speed back, this game is dead to me.

And that's why you still linger on its forum I suppose.

Indeed.

Those who are having fun are playing the game too much to visit the forums.

Those who aren't having fun, but care about the development of the franchise are on here with suggestions on how to fix it.

Those who aren't having fun and don't care, they are off playing something else.

Then there are the trolls who claim the game is fun, but they live on the forums rather than actually playing the game.

"

Indeed.

Those who are having fun are playing the game too much to visit the forums.

Those who aren't having fun, but care about the development of the franchise are on here with suggestions on how to fix it.

Those who aren't having fun and don't care, they are off playing something else.

Then there are the trolls who claim the game is fun, but they live on the forums rather than actually playing the game.

And those who have fun but also care about development? Like players who just don't want to their favorite game become faster-than-speed-of-light fiesta?

"

Elena#1466 wrote:

Engaging action combat is what makes an action rpg an action rpg.
I dont get how achieving a state of gameplay were holding 1 button is a viable way of playing (or killing a boss in <15s, etc.) is a meaningful goal? I would like my character to be executed the moment that happens, because the action combat will be gone. There is no point in striving for something that when achieved brings negative satisfaction.

"

stearnix#4567 wrote:

As a player of both Poe 1 & 2 who discovered the license with the early access in 0.1 and since then have been addicted to both games every league and with every league i feel like GGG has become more and more out of touch with the playerbase.

First of all, i'm not really going to talk much about poe 1 since i'm still bad at the game but the 2 last leagues weren't good.
Mercenaries was well received because it offered the possibility of new builds while also giving a base +25% loot bonus as you had another character with you but this league was only good because the base game was good, not because of the league mechanic.

as for keepers... somehow they thought we needed a loot nerf while also making the league mechanic only good for the campaign and complete garbage for maps. we also received a "loot buff" mid league when people complained, which barely changed anything.

i'm talking about those because it feels like it's the same pattern for Poe 2.
somehow, after all the complaints, GGG still does not understand that what makes people play their game is the loot drop and the current league was proof of that, people kept playing poe 2 despite it's numerous flaws.
and now let's talk about the flaws of Poe2

first of all the layouts
The maps are horrible, they're the worst aspect of poe 2 be it in the campaign or endgame. They're too big and their generation is just horrible, having lots and lots of small corridors and dead ends. coupled with the facts that we have no movespeed it's really frustating.

People have been complaining about it since 0.1 and we got a nerf to it as they used to be even more horrible than now somehow.

The movespeed
This is also something players have been complaining about since 0.1 and we had a little buff to it thanks to the movespeed runes and essence of increased effect on boots. But somehow GGG thought it was a good idea to nerf it in 0.4 while also, in the interview not understanding what people wanted about move speed.
"What do people want more of it ? less of it ? i don't understand" which is what Mark said during the interview.

The builds
In 0.1 we had a lot of build variety. since then they've nerfed/killed most of the interactions (hexblast my beloved) and made combos necessary.
now i have no problem using combos to boost the damage of my abilities in the campaign of even against bosses but the problem is when those combos become necessary to use a skill or do damage at all.
this is something we should solve with player progression and not GGG killing skills interactions. When i do hundreds of maps i don't want to press combos for pack of white and blue mobs my main skills should be able to kill them and, on higher budget, even rares.
Their unwillingness to give such progression is just boring as we're stuck with the same skills and no way to progress.

The defenses
Lmao
you have a high punitive game where we lose the map, loot,exp and have to rerun the map we just lost to progress the atlas.
you would expect such a punitive game to have a lot of defenses options, but somehow, they're worse than poe 1 where we have 6 portals a map.
Passive tree
it's just damage,barely at that

Endgame
This is one of the biggest problem of poe2, which is going to be adressed in 0.5 but seeing how they managed this league and last poe1 league i don't have much hope for it.
there is no loot, maps are just boring coupled with the fact that they're immense and that there is barely any mob in it. No one wants to run maps they're just pain.
coupled with the fact that you cannot choose your layout and that if you die ONCE in a map (because let's be honest, you already barely have anything dropping in your map so you have to run 3 tablets everytime to get something out of it) you do not lose only xp (which i think is normal) but you lose the loot and then you have to RERUN the empty map to progress your infinite atlas tree.
This is where it gets bad because it's a layered punishement with the no movespeed and horrible layout and map generation. There is no fun in that it just makes us lose out time for nothing.

All of those problems have been a core issue since 0.1 but somehow GGG never listened to our feedback and only did the things they felt like it seems like they barely listen to anything we say and believe their vision of the game is the only correct one and that all the playerbase is wrong about it and seeing the current hotfix about temple. it proves that they don't know what they're doing nor what kind of game they're making.
with all those decisions not only do they punish the experienced players but also the casuals by not respecting both of these player's time and fulfilling both the casual and experienced player's expectation are not exclusive, we can have a fulfilling end game while also a satisfying gameplay for casuals.
But somehow GGG isn't interested in fixing all of that, the impression they gave me is that they do not care about our opinion, we do not get any interview anymore since 0.2 zizaran for some reason (lmao). They only want the game like they envision it, not for the casual, not for the experienced player only for the developpers.
And as a player who love the game, this is infuritating because poe 2 could be such a good game and Poe1 has the solution to many of those problems but somehow they ignore poe 1 seeing it as lesser and a worse game than their poe 2 baby. But the truth is Poe1 is still by far the superior game and i'm saying that by being a poe 2 player first.
I'm not saying to turn poe 2 into poe 1 but poe 1 probably faced the same problems before and they refuse to look at the solutions that they can take out of poe 1, that are compatible with poe 2 and put them into the game.

TL;DR:
GGG feels increasingly out of touch with players. PoE2 repeats PoE1’s recent mistakes: loot scarcity, overly punishing mechanics, and ignoring long-standing feedback. Maps are huge, maze-like, slow, and unrewarding; movespeed is still too low (and even nerfed); build variety is worse with forced combos; defenses are weak despite harsh death penalties; passive tree is bland; endgame is boring, empty, and wastes player time. These issues have existed since 0.1, but GGG prioritizes their “vision” over player feedback. PoE2 could be great, but refusing to learn from PoE1’s solutions is holding it back.