Vaal skills are basically a giant noob trap.

I think most people have seen the video displaying a chunk of the Vaal Skills. At first glance, they look great. However, they are basically the most glorified noob trap in existence.

Almost every build in PoE is designed to slaughter groups of foes (like any other PvE scenario in any game.) 99% of people's 6 links will be used as the "group" skill. Now, why would you choose to take up another set of slots to run a Vaal Skill (glorified AoE) that you can only use every X kills when your primary 6l already does a fine job of that? You are coughing up more Auras, a single target skill, and/or CwDT slots to be redundant.

The solution is to run your 6l for single target damage then, right?
Hardly. You'd spent more time individually killing foes to charge your AoE attack than it would take you to just use AoE and mow them down in the first place.
Edit: One Vaal Skill appears to be able to charge another. If this is the case, then it might be possible to run a single target 6l and multiple Vaal Skills. This is still subject to monster group size issues and generally not worth the effort when an AoE 6l, once again, does it better/easier.

So you just run the Vaal skills on a weapon swap!
Nope. I can almost guarantee the gem will need to be "active" to be charged. Auras deactivate. CwDT becomes null. It just follows suit. Plus it would be a no-brainer/mandatory.

Furthermore, Vaal Skills scale negatively with party size.
You have to get the final blow to charge the Gem. But Terror, how can you possibly know that?
1. It's the way potions work.
Edit: Potions do somewhat share kills, but this is done on a greater than one basis. How is a player supposed to charge fractions of a soul, or give full soul credit to one person, then a fraction to everyone else (that would be more than a single soul.) Also, see the point below.
2. Do you really think GGG is going to let players run around alternating Vaal Skills off of each other? That would be broken. Don't be silly.

Some people will run them and claim they are just fine.
Those people would probably have a better build if they just ran Auras or CwDT in it's place.

Alas, there are a few exceptions that would make Vaal skills efficiently usable.
1. Vaal Skills that gain largely increased single target damage. These are to be used on the occasional rares that pop up. The Ice Nova might be an example of an AoE that scales single target damage, but I doubt the damage scales hard enough to really override just using a single target based 4l instead. Corpse Explosion might be another, assuming it still runs off a percent (which would mean it takes a single Gem Slot to use effectively.)

2. Running one gem of a 6l as a Vaal Skill "support" to double up on actual support gems. Lose some effective overall for a large burst occasionally.

3. Those super rare builds that really don't have shit to use. Like Righteous Fire.

4. The rare possibility of running only Vaal Skills and having them charge each other. Likely not efficient. Also screwed if the chain breaks.
Edit: Video confirms that one skill will charge another. Unconfirmed rather or not a skill charges itself. Also unconfirmed if souls are shared and used from a giant pool (Chris used a cheat in the video to charge them.)

5. Skills that are mechanically superior enough to avoid requirements like support gems (like Corpse Explosion's inherent ability to not really need supports.)


Basically, only Vaal Skills that are able to focus a lot of damage onto a single target will get used commonly. Few niche builds may find use for others. Oh and just a reminder, this isn't about rather or not the gems will be usable. It's about rather or not they are more efficient/effective than simply using what we've had this whole time.

12 Pages Edit:
Let me clarify, this is not a troll. This uses some pretty basic logic to state problems that are already visible with the info we have so far. At the least, the thread makes enough sense to warrant a response from Qarl:

"

Qarl wrote:

The balance of the gems certainly is a challenge for us.

The two extreme cases being the noob trap described (a very real danger), and the other case being a replacement for other skills.

We think we are finding the right place to pitch them, expensive enough to not be replacement or mandatory, but powerful enough to be worth it.

They probably do perform a better solo or in small parties compared to a throw party. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. We need a few game elements to favour smaller groups and solo play. Coordinated party play, and purpose built parties tend to make up for any disadvantage easily.

Yes, there is a slight amount of speculation. However, it's all based on standard ARPG/MMO logic and practices. No, I can't see the future, but based on what has happened in the past, and extrapolating from the information you have now, you can make some pretty freakin amazing guesses as to what is going to happen next.

"

GrammerPolise wrote:

tl;dr

Also I lol'd at "noob trap"

8/10

If you can't take the time to read, don't take the time to post your bullshit. You are the reason GGG prefers Reddit.

What if you gained charges for mobs simply dying nearby?

Don't know why you spent your time typing all that up for a gameplay feature that hasn't even been fully revealed yet.

"

Terrornoid wrote:

If you can't take the time to read, don't take the time to post your bullshit. You are the reason GGG prefers Reddit.

ahahah

I don't think you should just jump to conclusions before the reveal...

"

Almost every build in PoE is designed to slaughter groups of foes (like any other PvE scenario in any game.) 99% of people's 6 links will be used as the "group" skill. Now, why would you choose to take up another set of slots to run a Vaal Skill (glorified AoE) that you can only use every X kills when your primary 6l already does a fine job of that? You are coughing up more Auras, a single target skill, and/or CwDT slots to be redundant.

This is a valid concerns and i mentioned before how unfeasible it is for many builds (auras and koams users especially) to fit in an addition 4 links to get a vaal skill to activate once every few minutes.

many high end builds can reach remarkable aoe speeds and having a burst aoe clear isnt that meaningful unless you run into a hyper resistant champion pack.

The entire trigger gem system amounted to nothing but glassy Cocs and passive defensive proccing through cwdt.

"

GrammerPolise wrote:

"

Terrornoid wrote:

"

GrammerPolise wrote:

tl;dr

Also I lol'd at "noob trap"

8/10

If you can't take the time to read, don't take the time to post your bullshit. You are the reason GGG prefers Reddit.

Oh don't be such a sour sally I was just joking

I actually did read most of it, so chill out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRH-Ywpz1_I

Sour Sally.... I really enjoyed reading that more than I shouldve.

OP does a good job of summing up everyone's fears and concerns regarding vaal skills. We can only wait and see. However, I would apprehend that these concerns did not cross the collective minds of GGG. I anticipate vaal skills were designed to work without support gems but I could be mistaken. This would fit well with the introduction of unset ring base types.

We also don't know if there are new item affixes. Something like gain a charge on crit for example could make these a lot more appealing.

"

Vesuvorus wrote:

We also don't know

/thread

Let's just wait and see how things actually play out once the patch is live before we start complaining.