widescreen resolution removed from the game.

Okay, I'll bite too.

"

trades occur are pretty similar to market economics and Perfect Competition is a very accurate description of PoE

"

Perfect competition is said to exist when all criteria are met, which is rarely (if ever) observed in the real world. These criteria include; all firms contribute insignificantly to the market, all firms sell an identical product, all firms are price takers, market share has no influence on price, both buyers and sellers have complete or "perfect" information, resources are perfectly mobile and firms can enter or exit the market without cost. Under idealized perfect competition, there are many buyers and sellers within the market and prices reflect the overall supply and demand. Another key feature of a perfectly competitive market is the variation in products being sold by firms. The firms within a perfectly competitive market are small, with no larger firms controlling a significant proportion of market share. These firms sell almost identical products with minimal differences or in-cases perfect substitutes to another firm's product.

Lets address criteria you're trying to drag here.

1) all firms contribute insignificantly to the market

TFT mirror shops and people who had paid real money to have 100+ public tabs for trade, vs my 4 public tabs of non-crafted trash no one buys?

2) all firms sell an identical product

outside of unique items, people who are willing to engage in poe crafting (which I hope you agree is not an activity for every player) have much better "product" to sell than people who are more interested in actually playing game and trying to make money off their farming loot. Only raw currency/fragments are suited for latter role.

3) all firms are price takers

Absolute majority of sellers just sets prices according to what 3rd party software calculated, based on statistics of existing pricing, so this part is true. Except the mirror items segment, where supply is lower than demand, and supplies can easily reach cartel agreements.

4) market share has no influence on price

There were meme cases like someone buying all hinekora locks, and same as above, market share depends on specific type of supply. Mirror and crafter shops don't bother with market research, can set whatever prices they want.

5) both buyers and sellers have complete or "perfect" information

Lol, perfect information in poe? Only a handful of people in playerbase can determine any item's usefulness at a glance. Most buyers have read a few specific build guides at best.

6) resources are perfectly mobile and firms can enter or exit the market without cost

Can I refund real money spent on premium tabs? Won't be able to compete with nolifers unless become a nolifer myself.

7) Another key feature of a perfectly competitive market is the variation in products being sold by firms. The firms within a perfectly competitive market are small, with no larger firms controlling a significant proportion of market share. These firms sell almost identical products with minimal differences or in-cases perfect substitutes to another firm's product.

Yep, variations are limited, but this cannot possibly be compared to real life, as "firms" do not design "products" themselves. It is GGG who chose builds using synergy A,B, and C, as the most broken OP, thus every "firm" prices those building bricks higher than others. If I could make items in item editor before selling them, this point could've made some sense.

"

Echothesis wrote:

1) all firms contribute insignificantly to the market

TFT mirror shops and people who had paid real money to have 100+ public tabs for trade, vs my 4 public tabs of non-crafted trash no one buys?

People only buy sick legacy items in dead standard for some silly side projects.

shocking news that the non existent standard player base has little to no interest for mentioned random items

"

Can I refund real money spent on premium tabs? Won't be able to compete with nolifers unless become a nolifer myself.

Lack of knowledge or interest to learn.

"

Yep, variations are limited, but this cannot possibly be compared to real life, as "firms" do not design "products" themselves. It is GGG who chose builds using synergy A,B, and C, as the most broken OP, thus every "firm" prices those building bricks higher than others.

Ah yes it's for sure GGG who creates all those builds and puts together ideas with a good synergy. Sounds like you mistaken D4 with PoE lol

The idea that the economy in PoE makes the game PvP competitive, when all the mechanics of the economy are demonstrably, objectively cooperative, is ludicrous nonsense.

For example, there is no such thing as finite resources in PoE. There is no upper bound and no limit to the amount of currency and items players can generate. Major elements of IRL economic theory, like scarcity, simply do not apply in the same way in a *video game*.

The idea that trade, based on cooperative mechanics, in a video game, somehow transforms that game into competitive PvP, is so silly that I won't be dignifying it further unless someone wants to actually discuss game mechanics.

"PoE is a competitive PvP game because it has a trade economy and I can find IRL economic theory that understands IRL trade through the lens of competition, therefore PoE should be understood as a competitive game" is fallacious nonsense.

1 year, 303 days.

Fix it.

1)It has a player based economy, making it inherently competitive. Denial and lack of understanding is hardly proof against. Most of the best delve players literally keep their accounts hidden as to not disclose information to others.
2)Which is bannable.
3)It is. It's like saying water isn't wet and refusing to elaborate. Your opinion doesn't change a fact.

All proof against is saying "Nuh uh". But keep at it, i'm sure who is winning everyone's hearts acting like that.

0 year, 7 days that proof was given that further extending vision is abusable. No "fix" needed.

1)Which is "illegal" by GGG rules.

2)Conjecture. All items have fixed "obtainable" attributes.

4)Supply and demand corrects the price at the end.

5)Everyone has the same information of what the item does, not what can be used for. One has no correlation to the other.

6)Talking about trade, not what GGG sells, which has no correlation.

7)You mean like graveyard?

Also, cherry picking the statements as literal or subjective when it suits you is really telling.

idk if its funny or not, don't know my own hardware according to the 32:9 haters.

5120x1440 aint 32:9 btw guys, fix your hardware, nothing wrong with big black bars you guys are just silly billies for wanting nice things!

I honestly give up, at least with all the posts maybe GGG will see this and at least consider a better solution.

Edit:

Should have maybe emphasised the sarcasm a bit more it seems, just repeating what Pashid said, he knows more about my computer than I do it seems.

Haters gonna hate sadly...

"

Vequis_uk wrote:

5120x1440 aint 32:9 btw guys

It is.

"

Vequis_uk wrote:

don't know my own hardware according to the 32:9 haters.

Thanks for confirming that yourself.

"

Vequis_uk wrote:

idk if its funny or not, don't know my own hardware according to the 32:9 haters.

Apparently you don't, according to yourself. Come on, a calculator can do that math for you

"

Vequis_uk wrote:

idk if its funny or not, don't know my own hardware according to the 32:9 haters.

5120x1440 aint 32:9 btw guys, fix your hardware, nothing wrong with big black bars you guys are just silly billies for wanting nice things!

I honestly give up, at least with all the posts maybe GGG will see this and at least consider a better solution.

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving.

"

tackle70 wrote:

The idea that the economy in PoE makes the game PvP competitive, when all the mechanics of the economy are demonstrably, objectively cooperative, is ludicrous nonsense.

For example, there is no such thing as finite resources in PoE. There is no upper bound and no limit to the amount of currency and items players can generate. Major elements of IRL economic theory, like scarcity, simply do not apply in the same way in a *video game*.

Hehe....what a misunderstanding and misrepresentation right here.

First of all, the market is cooperative AND competitive, but way more balanced towards competitive. There is nothing more "demonstrably" true than that. Competition is literally what creates the market, it is what creates "value" for items and maintains the stability of that value. It is only cooperative in that we all work together to maintain the item-base that is available within the market. Trade, any kind of trade, is inherently competitive. Without competition, there IS NO TRADE or market.

Second, you are correct that there is no such thing as "finite resources" but your conclusion is so far off base as to just simply be wrong. Sure, resources are infinite BUT that doesn't mean they are equal. You can get an infinite number of mirror-tier rare crafted items, but an infinite number do NOT exist on the market. Scarcity ABSOLUTELY continues to play a role in the market, regardless of finite vs. infinite resources. The REAL problem with "infinite resources" is Standard: after a certain amount of time, inflation "breaks" the economy and causes everything to be way way way way more expensive. But scarcity STILL plays a role in that scenario. A market with infinite (yet weighted) resources will STILL follow all the rules of a finite market, except that inflation will wreak havoc after a certain amount of time.

Heck, even irl markets and economies are "technically" infinite because we are constantly bringing more resources and money into that market. We are not living in some self-sustained environment created thousands of years ago where we just recycle everything. There is this whole metric known as "economic growth" which we always want to be positive....indicating INFINITE growth potential with regards to resources.

Dude....

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

1)Which is "illegal" by GGG rules.

2)Conjecture. All items have fixed "obtainable" attributes.

4)Supply and demand corrects the price at the end.

5)Everyone has the same information of what the item does, not what can be used for. One has no correlation to the other.

6)Talking about trade, not what GGG sells, which has no correlation.

7)You mean like graveyard?

Also, cherry picking the statements as literal or subjective when it suits you is really telling.

If you (again) require lawsuit-style formulating, fine, I can repeat exactly same thing (and those "criteria" were all in your statement, in the same order of appearance):

1) all firms contribute insignificantly to the market

"

Which is "illegal" by GGG rules.

Fine, you got me, will not mention mirror shops:)

PoE player's "market share", hence "contribution" is directly proportional to how many premium stash tabs he/she has, which cost real money. And then player has to actually manage and price hundreds of items in tabs manually. You cannot have proof that entire playerbase is happily wasting time committing to both those activities, hence here is first strike against your "equal competitive economy" statement.

And for pity's sake, don't bring "b-but you can trade without stash tabs!" here, no one realistically does that, certainly not on the whole economy scale.

2) all firms sell an identical product

"

Conjecture. All items have fixed "obtainable" attributes.

And this is relevant to the point 2) because?

I see lots of players selling fragment "products", another lot selling low-affix-tier items, and much less players selling T2+ tier items. The former don't sell T2+ because they flat don't have access to those "products" en masse, for various reasons, most of all top crafting being masochistic casino.

3) all firms are price takers
ERROR: no nitpicking input found, falling back to original statement

4) market share has no influence on price

"

Supply and demand corrects the price at the end.

Great, hard to argue here:)

But, calling on general supply and demand rules requires general assumption that suppliers are motivated to sell their supply. This is not true in videogame, you won't go starving while sitting on your pile of mirror-tier gear if no one buys them. If you are able to craft top gear, you automatically cannot be considered so low on basic currency, that you won't balance your books without trade.

5) both buyers and sellers have complete or "perfect" information

"

Everyone has the same information of what the item does, not what can be used for. One has no correlation to the other.

Have you understood what you said here?:) Sure, if a chest armor has double %aura effect, maybe I should put it on aurastacker, thanks for reminding. But those are trivial cases only. The better part of prices set by knowledgeable sellers is not just the sum of affix prices, you know that yourself with your experience. And the rest are just following the pricing example with 3rd party software. Which is far from "perfect information everyone". You cannot have proof that every seller actually cares for full list of potential uses for item he/she is about to sell.

6) resources are perfectly mobile and firms can enter or exit the market without cost

"

Talking about trade, not what GGG sells, which has no correlation.

You cannot participate in trade without getting what GGG sells first, this alone makes entering the market unequal. Everyone RMT their market share, as said in 1

One exception is TFT listings, but you said yourself "which is illegal by GGG rules" and called it a day. Let me do the same:)

Again, please don't drag subforum listings here, good luck selling there.

7) Another key feature of a perfectly competitive market is the variation in products being sold by firms. The firms within a perfectly competitive market are small, with no larger firms controlling a significant proportion of market share. These firms sell almost identical products with minimal differences or in-cases perfect substitutes to another firm's product.

"

You mean like graveyard?

Point was, demand boundaries are defined by GGG, not supply. You may gravecraft/harvestcraft/recombinate weird item, good luck selling it if it isn't a part of known busted OP build.

Thus the "firms" have no creative freedom in designing their "products", considering what resource hog crafting is.

You still think "trades occur are pretty similar to market economics and Perfect Competition is a very accurate description of PoE"?:) Or maybe profiting from trade in this game is more akin to rushing through the bottleneck before other 200k players do the same?

As a side note, I'd be really interested in hearing your opinion about how situations of "exploit found, market inflation skyrocketed, exploit eventually fixed, market left overinflated" map to real life economy. Do you have any idea what would happen IRL if government regulators would disappear and not intervene? This is close to how GGG never directly intervenes with the market after another exploit.