Trade in PoE is not good and takes away from immersion

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Cyzax wrote:

Given the amount of loot that gets dropped in PoE, there has to be a limiter on how much of it enters the trade market. The only limiter that is available is to make trade 'cost' time so most people don't ID loot, and don't list it for trade.

If that loot entered an auction house type trade system, you'd (figuratively) have two types of items. Those that cost a wisdom, and those that cost a mirror... The cheap ones would still be very very good.

At that point, the game would have to be rebalanced as everyone would have 'very good' gear that would only cost a pittance... That rebalance would kill off self-found players, because there would be no chance for them to actually play and progress. It would also kill off any joy in finding a 'good' item, You'd essentially never find anything you could sell for any appreciable amount.

No. Trade has to be limited, and the only limit that matters is time spent.

That doesn't even mention the massive amount of money GGG would have to invest in developing, maintaining and policing an auction house. An investment that would bring them zero new income. Not a sensible business decision...

The game would not "have to" be rebalanced to make self-found play painful though. There are other options, the first and most obvious being just...not doing that. Letting trade make the game easy for people.

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MLGonthorian wrote:

Also, you have content sometimes that you CAN'T leave. Imagine you're doing the final waves of a Simulacrum or the final waves of an uber lab and someone messages you for their item. Sure, you can tell the buyer "in lab, in simulacrum." But do you think they will wait for you? Of course not, they will buy from someone else.

Trading is part of the game, and as such, just put time into trading when you're not mapping or bossing or heisting or delving or labbing or whatever.

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MLGonthorian wrote:

Then there's the aspect of having to go into someone's hideout to trade when they are in a completely different server than yours, causing massive ping spikes and sometimes crashes and dc's. You play in Washington D.C. and join someone from Singapore for a trade, it's likely you will dc or one of you will crash to desktop.

I don't think I have ever DC'd in a trade. Even in the patch that killed load times some months back, it took a long time to zone in, but I didn't crash. And maybe I'm weird, but I like seeing other people's hideouts. That actually seems more immersive to me in a game, not less. (Anime rubbish excluded.)

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MLGonthorian wrote:

Anything at this point would be better than what is in the game currently. Even cross-instance trading would help.

As you can tell, I like the system they have now and would not want to see an AH implemented. What I would like to see is GGG adding Awakened PoE trade/its functionality into the game itself, or have an easier way to ctrl-c an item's stats and fully paste it into GGG's trade site for searching purposes.

Players are spamming others players: 5 or 10 times in a row i am inviting right in the second, and they all cancel:

Like pigs, they are probably spamming like 30 people for 1 small item because they absolutely cant wait at least 5 seconds in-between each message: there's not respect, no education.

I agree changes are needed. Here's my idea and no I didn't read the entire thread before replying.

Auction House / Automate all stackable non modifiable items (currency, scarabs, fragments, ect.) Players still set their own prices as we do now.
(Edit) They could even add a new special stash tab for people to buy that would like to automate these things ^_^

Leave the rest as is.

Idk just seems the vast majority of friction is the simple stuff that really isn't worth peoples time to stop mid map. Not even going to bring up the things you cant just leave to make the trade well unless your into wasting time or the trade is worth that waste of your time.

Price fixing will happen no matter what is done. No adding a bind on account after one purchase is not a good idea its punishing the masses for the crimes of the few.

Artificial friction that doesn't really add anything to the game? I don't know about you but I get plenty of "Friction" IRL I don't need more preventing me from doing what I'm playing the game for in the first place running around killing monsters and getting loot and if I cant get the items I want on my own I would like to trade for them in a timely manner rather than having to use TFT's bulk selling tool to sell to someone who more than likely is just going to toss it onto a bot that automates the trading anyways? Idk just my thoughts.

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murdouken wrote:

Please read my simple, 3 sentence post again. You clearly missed an important piece of what I said.

No... Your personal convenience is of no importance compared to the economic health of the game :-)

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

There are other options, the first and most obvious being just...not doing that. Letting trade make the game easy for people.

Except... GGG has quite clearly said that trade should never be a mandatory part of the game. It would be with an auction house.

D3 made that clear enough. Then they realised their mistake in putting it in, and removed trading...

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shoematt2008 wrote:

I agree changes are needed. Here's my idea and no I didn't read the entire thread before replying.

Auction House / Automate all stackable non modifiable items (currency, scarabs, fragments, ect.) Players still set their own prices as we do now.
(Edit) They could even add a new special stash tab for people to buy that would like to automate these things ^_^

Leave the rest as is.

Unfortunately, that would not work either... PoE doesn't just drop enormous amounts of loot, but also drop enormous amounts of currency. Most of that is languishing in peoples stash tabs because it is not worth the effort to trade it.

If you removed that effort (i.e. via an auction house), most of that would enter the trade market. The less useful items would drop in price like a rock, the more useful would shoot up like a rocket. Flippers would rejoice, everyone else would not.

Only a relative small number of players trade, and even less trade currency. They don't because it is cumbersome. Remove the work from it, and most people would, causing instant implosion of the economy.

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Cyzax wrote:

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shoematt2008 wrote:

I agree changes are needed. Here's my idea and no I didn't read the entire thread before replying.

Auction House / Automate all stackable non modifiable items (currency, scarabs, fragments, ect.) Players still set their own prices as we do now.
(Edit) They could even add a new special stash tab for people to buy that would like to automate these things ^_^

Leave the rest as is.

Unfortunately, that would not work either... PoE doesn't just drop enormous amounts of loot, but also drop enormous amounts of currency. Most of that is languishing in peoples stash tabs because it is not worth the effort to trade it.

If you removed that effort (i.e. via an auction house), most of that would enter the trade market. The less useful items would drop in price like a rock, the more useful would shoot up like a rocket. Flippers would rejoice, everyone else would not.

Only a relative small number of players trade, and even less trade currency. They don't because it is cumbersome. Remove the work from it, and most people would, causing instant implosion of the economy.

Which is why unlimited auction house is a bad idea.
Trading in video games is generally a balance between convenience and restrictiveness.

In Path of Exile players can trade away just about any item that can be acquired - except for quest items that are character bound for obvious reasons (skill point books). But trade itself has friction. You won't be bothering to trade away that 1 alch unique, you just won't pick it up. Or you will pick it up, slam a quick vaal orb on it becaue +1 power charge starkonja might be worth something. This +1 power charge never hits though, so you toss it away.

In World of Warcraft on the other hand - there is very efficient and frictionless trading system called the auction house. Players are able to quickly exchange gold for items (crafting goods, consumables, low-level equipment). But trading in WoW is heavily restricted, most endgame gear is bound on pickup. AH offers good gear for 2-3 slots maybe and the rest is starter gear that can be crafted with professions. This starter gear is way worse than even entry-level dungeon or raid gear.

A compromise could be AH in POE - but you have to use gold to post auctions. Gold itself is untradeable and can only be farmed ingame. We know that POE2 has gold and it has its uses in the campaign - and then in endgame as AH currency.

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Cyzax wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

There are other options, the first and most obvious being just...not doing that. Letting trade make the game easy for people.

Except... GGG has quite clearly said that trade should never be a mandatory part of the game. It would be with an auction house.

No? I didn't say anything about trade being mandatory. I said you could let it make the game easy. I mean, it already makes the game easier.

"It's easier to succeed if you do this" and "doing this is mandatory" are very different statements. You're not forced to play all games on the easiest setting just because it exists. You are in control of your actions.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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Cyzax wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

There are other options, the first and most obvious being just...not doing that. Letting trade make the game easy for people.

Except... GGG has quite clearly said that trade should never be a mandatory part of the game. It would be with an auction house.

No? I didn't say anything about trade being mandatory. I said you could let it make the game easy. I mean, it already makes the game easier.

"It's easier to succeed if you do this" and "doing this is mandatory" are very different statements. You're not forced to play all games on the easiest setting just because it exists. You are in control of your actions.

But that won't be how it will be. GGG want the game to be difficult, but if T2 mod items are an alt a piece, the game will be too easy for the average trading player.

So, to keep the game challenging, which is what attracts most players even if they admit it or not, GGG would have to rebalance towards more difficult. So, trading becomes effectively mandatory.

Easy trading, as GGG has correctly deduced years ago (the manifesto is from 2017), can not be supported in this game.

Plus, there is not any extra income in doing it, a lot of expenses, and a high degree of risk that players will not like the game after an leave.

So, never going to happen in PoE 1... PoE 2 may have an auction house, but only IF the economy is designed for it from the start.