Jonathan's recent interview makes me wonder if GGG might be at odds with itself.

"

Kopogero wrote:

GGG objective is to attract the new audience, bring back the former, and retain the current, especially if/when they reach a critical point, when they'll be more limited with what they can do/deliver/produce with the financial resources, assets and employees that are left.

GGG's financial statements are public. Despite being on a skeleton crew and doing "the bare minimum" for PoE1, they are doing very good. GGG has nothing to worry about.

"

Phrazz wrote:

I don't really get this post...

Breaks are healthy. Both Chris and Jonathan have said so too. For me, it goes without saying. There's nothing wrong with playing a few weeks and then being done with the league. Lots of people have been doing this for years and no one can convince me that it's bad for the game. I think "healthy" is the right word here.

That said... It doesn't mean that GGG shouldn't provide enough content for people wanting to play longer. While four months are way too long for some players, others need those four months to reach their goal. We are all different.

Of course GGG want us to play as much as possible, every developer does, especially in a f2p scenario. But they aren't stupid, and burnouts are real. Taking a break is healthy both for you and player retention.

Absence makes the ARP Grow fonder.

"Healthy" has never been the right word for PoE. And if it's the right word for PoE 2, then every fear avowed Exiles have right now regarding the new game being unlike the old is going to prove deliciously inadequate.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

"Healthy" has never been the right word for PoE.

I agree. Very few games are "healthy". Luckily, I was speaking about breaks when I used that word. And please don't tell me that breaks aren't healthy :)

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Phrazz wrote:

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

"Healthy" has never been the right word for PoE.

I agree. Very few games are "healthy". Luckily, I was speaking about breaks when I used that word. And please don't tell me that breaks aren't healthy :)

They hurt like hell but if you react properly, they can be one of the healthiest things we ever experience.

After all, pruning a branch can save a tree.

Meh I would treat PoE2 like a new game, which it is.

Jonathan and Mark have their own "visions", and we don't really know how that will play out in the end. For all the bluster about Neon being a former player, and understanding us, and all that, we then proceeded to get one of their worst performing leagues of all-time as his maiden voyage as game director. I suppose nowhere to go but up from there, but it isn't exactly setting the stage for a promisng future. "Deal with it" hits a bit different when your league doesn't land well. At least imo.

As I mentioned in another thread recently, starting off with the premise that GGG is correct, or is making the right decisions, as the default starting position, doesn't make sense from an intellectual standpoint. I would caution folks on that. PoE2 might need significant cooking when we get our hands in it. We will all see in the late fall when the beta comes out but it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that PoE2 misses the mark, or the differences are stark casuing a PoE1 Elite player backlash. I'm sure it will be interesting times.

Lastly on the notion of what is "healthy" for the game. GGG isn't magnamous here. They want players playing as much as possible. They want to drive play hours hoping to convert those hours to sales. They have algorithms for this. Sure they want people to come back every league, but if they do so without buying anything, that does pretty much nothing for the bottom line. They want to rack up as many game hours as possible. Don't misunderstand.

Of course the Devs have said things like skip a league, take a break, etc.. but not because of some altruistic view, but because it's already the reality. They have to embrace it. Players behave in this way regardless(for the most part). It's the extreme minority of gamers that play one game, all the time, and nothing else. There is no point in denying the reality of the market at the moment, and GGG knows this.

To me it seems that Chris decided to pass on the "vision". His increasingly rare sightings hint that he might have decided to just sit back and enjoy the money he made; and I can't blame the guy, I'd do the same.

Now Jonathan and Mark decide whatever they feel is right for the game.

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lupasvasile wrote:

Now Jonathan and Mark decide whatever they feel is right for the game.

Which is "coffins"...

:D

my hot take.

poe1/chris's vision was solid. BUT, very early along the way they had to make concessions.

seeing how poe2 and poe1 ruthless itemization is, the game truly intended to be an RNG fest that was more akin to diablo 2. in d2 getting a magic item with 2 mods that had high rolls could be much more worth it than a rare item with 6 mods that give little bits of nothing.

my theory is that during poe's early days, GGG never did intend for people to get "mirror worthy" items that were 6 tier 1 mods. GGG did not expect players would form guilds, pool resources to craft god tier items and provide mirror services which in turn funded future projects. they were not exploiting the game in any way and played within the confines of what GGG allowed.

GGG could not "nerf" them. instead they catered to them more. similarly this is what happened when players found interesting interactions and ways to multiply damage. GGG found it VERY difficult to nerf them. i think a lot of players were thrilled with what they could do in POE and as a result threw a lot of money at GGG. if GGG wanted to nerf, they would most probably hurt their paying players. getting paying players to pay more is easier than making players spend their initial dollar. it was in GGG's best interest to cater to them.

its also how the game which came from d2 which had "only standard league" and had its initial fans come from d2 being their initial market evolved into being focused on temp leagues. they go where the money is at.

a lot of people shit on tencent/ggg being sell outs. but i would always point out, GGG became more emboldened after the tencent partnership back in 2018. after their partnership what did we get?

exilecon 2019. within exilecon what did we get? POE2 announcement. GGG also went wild introducing ruthless, archnemesis etc. they were very reckless with std too.

our supporter pack helps GGG make money, but tencent's investment allowed them to expand and accelerate their plans by years. we should be thanking our chinese overlords for helping make this happen lol.

i've made a few threads on how i believe melee sucking hard in poe1 being the reason why poe2 was made separate. i believe this decision goes hand in hand with chris's silence.

i think its beyond any doubt that ggg knew there would be backlash from the community for the separation. but they did it anyway. i believe with that, chris perhaps felt his lovechild which was supposed to be the forever game that he envisioned would meet it's end.

and i believe he knew that the decision to separate the games was the right decision. poe1 is the protoman to the megaman. the megaman to the megaman x. he had his vision but in order to survive and keep getting funds for the game, the game "followed the money" more than it followed "chris's" vision.

i think hes tired. he might even be sad. his life project now is facing an inevitable demise, and passionate people like me yell at him for separating the game etc. i may support the separation now but i was so damn pissed at GGG/chris before i understood the magnitude of how different melee was going to be in poe2.

as for the vision.

i agree.

the vision has evolved a huge lot. POE now is a mix of contradicting visions. POE1 specifically.

original trade manifesto wants players to play the game more instead of trading. but they kept making trade easier. and now, during league announcements they even spell it out saying some drops would be useless to players but could be useful to others and should be traded.

POE started with a huge lot of build flexibility and was "classless", but it was they who introduced ascendancy. they created increasingly more difficult content, which each ramp in difficulty, the more players had to be more efficient with their build/gearing.

standard league was originally heralded as the place for gear/wealth permanency until GGG decided its no biggie.

temp leagues originally served as a fun test bed for new league mechanics and an alternate/parallel league to exist alongside standard, but now seems to be a major focus between the two leagues.

you can play single player or you can play in a party, but it seems playing in party simply gives so much more benefits.

so yeah GGG IS at odds with itself, but i strongly believe that they are going wrath of god/Armageddon wiping the slate clean. tabula rasa. start back afresh on poe2 with renewed philosophies.

poe is a niche game. Poe 2 will also be a niche game but one that aims to be popular, hence the focus on console and in depth tutorials alongside other new player friendly things. Poe 2 could easily eclipse Poe.

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AbilityPoints wrote:

poe is a niche game. Poe 2 will also be a niche game but one that aims to be popular, hence the focus on console and in depth tutorials alongside other new player friendly things. Poe 2 could easily eclipse Poe.

Hundreds of thousands of players is a niche now?

What