Why POE2’s Direction Is Worrying for Veterans and Newcomers Alike

I agree completely.

I've brought this up before, but I really want to particularly highlight just how absolutely incompatible, I think, many of the design choices are with the seasonal model.

There have been many people praising the slow pace and the difficulty. I am absolutely not seeing how people will replay this every single league on every single character. I think they won't. All the people praising how slow and difficult it is, like 2 of them will come back. I'm 100% sure of that.

The PoE 1 campaign offers many opportunities to speed up with every playthrough. That is what keeps it fresh - the pacing is just right. The base movement speed is good in relation to the size of the zones, you level up at a frequency that makes you want to keep going. The PoE 2 pacing somehow feels just absolutely dreadful.

On top of that, and I don't know how to put it nicely, I just absolutely hate the dodge roll and the fact that the boss fights are designed around it.

"

rob_korn#1745 wrote:

You make some sense, and at the same time you don't. I'm here to discuss, if you wanna troll I'm out.

thank you i appreciate a good discussion its rare nowadays tbh.

"

If I try to watch from both perspective, do we realize that saying :
- PoE2 not for you, go back to PoE1
- PoE2 not for you, go back to D2
are the same pointless arguments in both directions ?

i must admit i m not too sure what this point is about, it definitely is pointless to argue about this because, Path2, PoE1, D2 are all different games.

The way i see it Path2 is more akin an all terrain jeep, its rough but you get to go to many different places that others cant experience.

PoE1 is more akin a modern car, maybe an MPV. it can go fast and it can carry a lot of stuff.

D2 is probably "your dads old car". when your family was struggling you had to borrow it from him and it got you places. theres a lot of sentimental value and some people just like driving old cars for their antique value/simplicity.

whether or not i m accurate with those analogies, what i m saying is, they're all not the same. if you like a certain experience, you use the car that gives you the best experience to cater to yourself. thus if you prefer poe1 you should play poe1. simple as that. trying to make poe2 into poe1 is not what the devs wanted. and if that eventually happens i might quit both altogether.

"

You talk about Elder bullet phase, you can dodge without barely moving at all, only side stepping. That's a bad example (but we could argue there are other examples). Have you seen Zarokh hourglass phase ? THIS is 100% movement speed issue.

you seem pretty skilled to be able to do that. i definitely might be wrong about that example. perhaps maybe eradicator one was better?

zarokh one is BULLSHIT. you're 100% right on that. it is 100% a ms issue and GGG needs to fix that shit ASAP.

"

Why are you all so fixated on the zoomers, aren't you just jealous ? (no troll, serious introspection question) I'm not a zoomer, so I just farm slow content like harbingers. And that's fine, cuz I have the CHOICE. Zooming isn't a fatality, you know that ? That's why it's fun, cuz there is lattitude, it is a player CHOICE about what you farm.
At the moment PoE2 doesn't have that choice. You'll have to be slow. How is that close to an upgrade ?

the fact you brought up zarokh is a good so i can just use him as an example.
if players were given ways to get 50-100% movespeed, how will GGG balance zarokh? where is the sweet spot? currently GGG needs to just tweak it so that players have 5-10 extra seconds and the entire bullshit mechanic will suddenly be fine. if we have the ability to run around faster, theres no way for ggg to easily fix this mechanic. anyone with 50% movespeed would trivialize the entire mechanic. if GGG rebalanced it so you at least 40% ms to make the 50%ms users sweat a little, then you've effectively FORCED ALL players to get 50% ms as baseline. this is what happened with poe1. a lot of player power caused GGG to design harder and harder mechanics which in turn increase the minimum of what a player needs to have in order to be viable.

in a very long winded way, this is the upgrade. the fact that you can play with a measely 20-30% ms boots is the upgrade. moving forward all of the bosses in path2 will be balanced around 20-30% ms. getting more would be difficult but possible. it can indeed help but players who cant get that much wont feel so punished by encounters that require large amount of ms.

as for am i jealous? you checked my character out. should i be jealous of myself? lol. to me i m sick of zooming around. to be honest i hate the fact that if you want to really fully enjoy poe1 you need to zoom. the reality is poe1 is a flawed game but it is the BEST diabloclone for a solid decade.

if you're talking about playing the game slow is an option. i ll be real with you. the game is built for zoomers. all the weaker content that slower builds can do are a mere afterthought to GGG. i honestly feel that whenever players say they have a choice of what content to run, it seems more of copium rather than anything else. in poe1 theres 2 ways to play the game. either blast everything or outlast everything by being a super tank.

of course you have those 2 options but GGG is clearly pushing you to playing zoom. a lot of mechanics in the game are zoom. breach, endless conflict, delirium etc. if you're slow you barely get anything. if you do maven invites, you need to blast. if you're too weak, the enemy may end up being healed more than you can damage them, and the longer you fight the more bosses appear and the harder you have to tank. similarly in shaper encounters, the longer you fight, the more perma degen pools appear.

the reason why i hate zoom is not entirely due to hating zoomers. its because Poe1 evolved in such a way that FORCED zooming. zooming is the best way to play. the choice you currently have to be honest is last night's leftovers. they simply exist.

path2 being slow and anti zoomer means that even if you are weak, you get to experience higher end tier content. wouldnt you like that? EVERYONE gets to experience end game content and you just need to be smart about avoiding telegraphed hits. i dont think you're a weak player either. maybe you're downplaying yourself. but either way, if you are indeed weak. in path2 even if you're weak, you're not too far behind better players.

that is why i hate zoom content.

"

Movement skill missing is not about zooming for me, it's about fun. When OP was talking about poke and back, it's like it doesn't create any fun situation. You always do the same pattern, and if you go too deep, you're dead (map lost etc, wow so fun). With movement skill, I can actually try to challenge, dive in, sometimes getting caught, sometimes getting out of it. It creates engagement, epic moments, FUN. At the moment it feels like playing tennis, but all points are decided on serve. That's not fun on the long run.

i understand this fun as i use dash in poe1 heavily. tell me how would GGG rebalance zarokh if dash was in the game? they would almost certainly be forced to make it more harder no?

"

Talking about the zoomers, you realize that top players beat the game also in a week ? Same "speed" as PoE1. While many things wheren't solved before hand. Why aren't you mad about the zoomers now ?

the main difference is most players are enjoying this game, getting beaten by "bullshit mechanics", instead of ragequitting they bitch and complain. and all that is without the use of a buildguide. many went in blind.

to be honest all the people using minion builds are robbing themselves of the experience of making something for themselves for once.

and i AM mad for the overperforming skills. ok maybe not mad. but annoyed that GGG is yet to nerf them. there still are a few right now. but the fact GGG slapped heavy nerfs so fast recently is quite a good sign that they are likely gonna do something about it.

also one main key factor why i m not too mad is that I M ENJOYING THE GAME! FUCKYEAH! i m playing as a jank ass melee 2handed poisoner pathfinder. currently level 80. i m struggling but i m having tons of fun. all that because of one major difference between Path2 and poe1. Path2 is specifically made to be antizoom. the latter is the complete opposite. i can do bosses without 40-50% movespeed. i dont need to burst down bosses in 3 seconds. i play smart and even if i m weak i can do it. so actually am i mad for the zoomers? naaaaaaah thinking about it naaaah. i m mad at ggg for not nerfing them sooner. lol

"

To keep it somewhat short, you also talk about becoming a god. Isn't it the goal of the game ? You kill, you improve your char, to kill harder, to improve, to kill harder. Why are you killing mobs ?
And because we all have different time/skills, you need a large scale, so that everyone finds a challenge. Why the zoomer should get bored after 2 days because it requires you 2 weeks ? It's also ok if you don't kill last best boss, it's a goal for you to improve.

the gap between "good" and "decent" in poe1 vs path2 are very different. as i mentioned about movespeed as an example. there are less "requirements" that you need to check off to make a viable build in Path2 compared to poe1 simply because the game is not balanced in poe1. poe1 is GGG pandering to players with power fantasy. they did not dare nerf player power so the only thing they could do was make stupid crazy difficult encounters that has huge ass slams or required you to run around at top speeds or just die.

the philosophy of path2 is different from poe1. look at the gearing. players are expected to want 2 awesome mods, then the rest are just filler/bonuses.

in poe1 you're expected to have very good rolls on your gear and a lot of that on top. if you compare player power from poe1 and path2. poe1 is a sharp curve upward, while path2 is more linear. gaining more power is good but not necessary in path2 but in poe1, the bare minimum needed is quite high.

"

I don't get it, where is this "mimimi" coming from ? Maybe people play this game with a "single player" mind ? "I want to be able to beat the game also ?" Is that jealousy ? (those are not rhetorical questions, I really don't get what drives ppl)

are you refering to the mimimi "me me me me me me me only me" song? abit condescending if so but i ll let it slide.

if you elaborate i can give you a better response. i dont quite get it.

"

Now, and specifically towards you. Your build in settlers is using a headhunter (+ flicker strike xD). That's beyond me. Arguably the most zoomy item ever. How can you be against zooming, but using it yourself. Are you really complaining about zooming because you can't see there are other gameplays possible ?

look back about how i mentioned poe1 was built to cater zoomers. all it did was create a huge divide between weaker players and better players.

thousands of dps vs millions is an obscene divide.

balance in a game becomes "impossible" if no limits are set. GGG realized this and have limited players in many ways in path2 to prevent that from happening.

i may be biased but i see this as an overall positive

1. I agree that it feels like a lotta walking around in the Levels that could be reduced but I dont want Movement abilities otherwise the whole combat system of the game will fall apart.
They announced way more checkpoints and teleporting around in the map I think that will fix it.

2. Here I agree that much HP isnt hard but this isnt a common issue in this game imo.
I rarely see an enemy where I feel like he has way too much HP and im someone who never played ARPGs.

3. Flask System is good imo I really never had a problem with it.

4. I have no opinion on this I played through the whole game without crafting.

5. I wish less loot would drop but more Rare stuff. Not a huge fan of generally looting. So when less stuff would drop and the stuff is way better I would be happy.

6. No opinion on this since I dont know POE1 but I can tell theres definitly not big creative freedom in this tree.

7.I like the Skill / Passive / Spirit Gem System tbh didnt have any problem with it.

8. The Campain isnt too long because of the Storyline but by how fking huge the Levels are.
You run around there for almost a whole hour per Level because they are way too big.
They need to WAY smaller it would be so much more fun.

9. Trials is so fking trash. I get the idea of "Rogue-Lite" but all those boring traps and the Honor System fk it up.
Get rid of those traps and they need to add way more cool stuff you can unlock to make the Trials easier when you do them over and over.
More different Bosses you can get in the end too.
Its like the worst and most boring Rogue Lite I have ever seen.

I think you are overall a bit too dramatic tho.
The game is still amazing and huge fun for most players.

Is d4's campaign as long as this? I'm trying to understand the decision to make the campaign this long as in current state I just don't see people playing leagues.

Chris Wilson also said the dev team thought PoE1's campaign was too long and wanted PoE2's campaign to be about 70% what PoE1's was.

Most players either don't want to the do the campaign or want a shorter campaign.

GGG's affinity with D2 - the D2 dev's also thought they nailed the campaign length and pacing, I would agree and it's much shorter than PoE1's.

Yet here we are.

"

AmpegV4#2473 wrote:

Is d4's campaign as long as this?

I've no idea how long D4 campaign is because I was asleep for its entire duration.

FLATTTTTEEEEEN!!!!! TENDERIIIIZZZEEEE!!!!

Oh i love PoE2 so much more than the PoE1. Coming from DIV i have awesome fun.

- bosses are nicely done. theyre actually fighting, yelling and if i do a false step i get tenderized <3

- the controlls with xbox joypad and the option to go backwards while shooting is just genius and easy to play.

- flask system is good

- thanks to some hard hitting monsters you always have to be aware. theres a bit of tension which adds to the atmosphere

- soundeffects & music are nice. theres also a map tune that sounds sooo much like the first 2 Diablo games.

- STEREO sound?!!!! in 2025??? (ohh im already in the future) Imagine having the black chamber music at least in Dolby Digital 5.1. WoW... would be awesome.

- The huge ATLAS endgame map. Ohh i cant wait to explore further today.

- i also like the drops. sometimes it takes ages till i get something new i can use but then it feels great. Theres also gambling to get better stuff.

- slow gameplay: at the beginning, later having movement speed on boots it gets a bit faster and you get much more stronger at the later levels and you can quickly pewpewpew like a D2 bow amazon through the monster hordes on the maps.

Yes. I totally have fun.

What i dont like:

- No facial/body character customization
- prices for cosmetics are totally mad. 80 bucks just for a backpiece? hahahaha...
- When x-box batteries are empty and you put new ones in then the game throws you out of the map instead of just pause the game.

At this point I honestly just feel bad for you Pathological.

"

2. Difficulty Isn’t About Tedium
I keep hearing that POE2 is “more difficult.” But is it? Difficulty isn’t about giving enemies inflated health pools and forcing players into a boring loop of poking, retreating, and poking again. That’s not engaging—it’s frustrating. True difficulty should come from well-designed mechanics and meaningful decision-making, not from artificially drawn-out combat.

Totally agree - and not just on this one.

I have decided not to take on any more bosses on my own. That in itself is frustrating but less frustrating than the endless boss battles where the 'game' is to find a sliver of space to do damage in between the endless rolling and dodging.

"

Kaukus1#7461 wrote:

I’ve been playing Path of Exile since its beta days. My Steam account alone shows over 6000 hours, and with the standalone client, I’m well above 8500 hours.
I’ve seen every league, every major patch, and every meta shift. I want POE2 to be different. I want it to evolve beyond POE1. But it also needs to respect the core elements that made the original game successful. It feels like some fundamental missteps are being made, and they’re hard to ignore.

One of the most frustrating things I see lately is new players, many of them ex-D4 players or people who barely touched POE1, saying GGG shouldn’t listen to veterans who want POE2 to hold onto certain aspects of the original.
These players also argue that POE1 veterans "don’t understand Souls-like games" or "slower, more methodical gameplay." This is just laughable. Many of us have played and loved games like Elden Ring or Dark Souls. We fully understand what makes those games great.
But comparing them to an ARPG like POE2 is like comparing apples to oranges. Souls games are about tight, deliberate combat, exploration, and immersive design, whereas POE is about progression, loot, and player creativity. Slowing down POE2 doesn’t make it feel like Elden Ring—it just makes it feel tedious.

Here’s my Steam profile, just to put things in perspective:


We’ve been playing this game for years. We’re the players who’ve kept coming back, league after league, supporting GGG with time and money.
This isn’t about “clinging to the past.” It’s about wanting POE2 to succeed while still respecting the core of what makes Path of Exile such a beloved ARPG.

Let me break down some key issues:

1. Slow Doesn’t Mean Better
A slower-paced game can be good, but it doesn’t automatically make it better. If you’re tired of POE1’s "zoom-zoom," I get it. But removing movement skills entirely, especially in massive maps that often require multiple trips through the same areas? That’s not challenging—it’s tedious. Even with rolls and movement speed buffs, traversing the world feels like a slog.

2. Difficulty Isn’t About Tedium
I keep hearing that POE2 is “more difficult.” But is it? Difficulty isn’t about giving enemies inflated health pools and forcing players into a boring loop of poking, retreating, and poking again. That’s not engaging—it’s frustrating. True difficulty should come from well-designed mechanics and meaningful decision-making, not from artificially drawn-out combat.

3. Flasks and the “Vision”
Yes, flasks now refill on kills, which is better than the original POE2 reveal. But the addition of refill wells still feels unnecessary and redundant. The whole system feels like a solution to a problem that didn’t exist in POE1. Instead of adding depth, it just slows down the pacing. It’s another example of the “vision” overriding what’s actually fun.

4. Crafting Is a Mess
No deterministic crafting is a joke. The devs say they want us to craft more, but how? Without reliable tools like crafting benches or alt rolls, crafting feels like throwing currency into the void and praying for a miracle. If the idea is to encourage players to build items from scratch, it’s not working. The lack of control isn’t engaging—it’s exhausting.

5. Drops and Vendors
If you like the current loot drops, more power to you. But even if you do, they’re still poorly designed. Vendors have been given more power, but drops feel so sparse that crafting currency barely exists. The balance isn’t there. You can’t expect players to engage deeply with crafting when you’re starving them of the resources to do so.

6. The Skill Tree Is Disappointing
The new skill tree looks like POE1’s tree but feels hollow in comparison. The nodes are uninspired, and the restrictive layout makes it harder to create unique or unconventional builds. The inability to travel across the tree freely stifles creativity. And the absence of masteries? It’s a huge loss. Masteries gave builds flexibility and depth, allowing players to specialize and fine-tune their characters. Without them, the tree feels rigid and unexciting. Even basics like Life nodes, which helped define different defensive strategies, are missing, limiting creativity in ways that hurt the game.

7. The Gem System Isn’t Fun
The new gem system isn’t engaging. It’s clunky, and the fact that gems don’t stack just highlights how half-baked it feels. The uncut gem mechanic might seem like an interesting idea, but in practice, it’s just another layer of grind. Gems should feel like an integral part of progression, not a source of frustration.

8. The Campaign Is Too Long
Some players praise the longer campaign, but for leagues, this is a disaster. Every league, we’ll have to slog through this overly long campaign multiple times. POE1’s campaign is already considered a chore by many veterans, and POE2’s is shaping up to be even worse. A longer campaign doesn’t mean better retention—it just means more burnout.

9. Ascendancies and Trials
Why can’t we change ascendancies anymore? Is this supposed to be a challenge? It’s just restrictive for no reason. And Trials… who thought combining Ultimatum and Sanctum mechanics was a good idea? Trials are tedious, clunky, and far from enjoyable. It feels like GGG took the least-loved mechanics and doubled down on them, which is baffling.

I Want to Love POE2, But It’s Hard
As a veteran, I want to see POE2 succeed. I want it to be different, but it also needs to respect the core systems that have kept players invested in POE1 for years. Right now, it feels like GGG is prioritizing their “vision” over what actually works.

To the newer players defending these changes without understanding their long-term impact: you’re not helping. Ignoring valid criticism isn’t supporting the game; it’s enabling bad design. Constructive feedback is what helps games improve. POE2 has the potential to be great, but it needs to address these issues before it alienates the very players who’ve been its foundation for years.

I don't even agree with most of the points, as someone who loves PoE1 blasting too.

I love that crafting is hard and rares are valuable. It's a big improvement over PoE1 where you will skate over every single drop and spam currency on a base you buy. Deterministic crafting wasn't fun. Having an infinite amount of currency meaning you make the perfect item isn't good for the game or it's ground loot. It just means you get to have perfect affixes on the base you want. Chasing an item that is actually hard to get, and having ground loot be valuable, is way more fun to me.

You also complain about the crafting just being "throwing currency into the void" but if you are crafting on items with multiple mods you want on them.. then recombination bench exists. So every item you crafted x3 could make the item you want, and there is chaos and omens so you could spend exorbitant amounts of currency to make the perfect item if you REALLY wanted to.

After they tuned up the drops on rare monsters I am making 10ex an hour easily farming t10s, in the campaign uniques are often dropping multiple ex. The drops are fine.

I love that the campaign is difficult, and I think the bosses are really cool to fight and overcome. Sure, maybe act 2 right now you feel pretty weak but after that it's fine. Could use some tweaking, but it's not that bad.

Skill tree works. I think they did a good job on it, and I hardly think just yourself has had the amount of currency and gold to respec into many different builds and really try it out and come to any sort of valid conclusion.

Honestly, it just feels like a long post carping and complaining about it not being as easy to you as PoE1 is. Yeah mate, it's a new game. PoE1 was also pretty hard when it was new and there was less ways to play it, and less people teaching you them.

"

Kaukus1#7461 wrote:

I’ve been playing Path of Exile since its beta days. My Steam account alone shows over 6000 hours, and with the standalone client, I’m well above 8500 hours.
I’ve seen every league, every major patch, and every meta shift. I want POE2 to be different. I want it to evolve beyond POE1. But it also needs to respect the core elements that made the original game successful. It feels like some fundamental missteps are being made, and they’re hard to ignore.

One of the most frustrating things I see lately is new players, many of them ex-D4 players or people who barely touched POE1, saying GGG shouldn’t listen to veterans who want POE2 to hold onto certain aspects of the original.
These players also argue that POE1 veterans "don’t understand Souls-like games" or "slower, more methodical gameplay." This is just laughable. Many of us have played and loved games like Elden Ring or Dark Souls. We fully understand what makes those games great.
But comparing them to an ARPG like POE2 is like comparing apples to oranges. Souls games are about tight, deliberate combat, exploration, and immersive design, whereas POE is about progression, loot, and player creativity. Slowing down POE2 doesn’t make it feel like Elden Ring—it just makes it feel tedious.

Here’s my Steam profile, just to put things in perspective:


We’ve been playing this game for years. We’re the players who’ve kept coming back, league after league, supporting GGG with time and money.
This isn’t about “clinging to the past.” It’s about wanting POE2 to succeed while still respecting the core of what makes Path of Exile such a beloved ARPG.

Let me break down some key issues:

1. Slow Doesn’t Mean Better
A slower-paced game can be good, but it doesn’t automatically make it better. If you’re tired of POE1’s "zoom-zoom," I get it. But removing movement skills entirely, especially in massive maps that often require multiple trips through the same areas? That’s not challenging—it’s tedious. Even with rolls and movement speed buffs, traversing the world feels like a slog.

2. Difficulty Isn’t About Tedium
I keep hearing that POE2 is “more difficult.” But is it? Difficulty isn’t about giving enemies inflated health pools and forcing players into a boring loop of poking, retreating, and poking again. That’s not engaging—it’s frustrating. True difficulty should come from well-designed mechanics and meaningful decision-making, not from artificially drawn-out combat.

3. Flasks and the “Vision”
Yes, flasks now refill on kills, which is better than the original POE2 reveal. But the addition of refill wells still feels unnecessary and redundant. The whole system feels like a solution to a problem that didn’t exist in POE1. Instead of adding depth, it just slows down the pacing. It’s another example of the “vision” overriding what’s actually fun.

4. Crafting Is a Mess
No deterministic crafting is a joke. The devs say they want us to craft more, but how? Without reliable tools like crafting benches or alt rolls, crafting feels like throwing currency into the void and praying for a miracle. If the idea is to encourage players to build items from scratch, it’s not working. The lack of control isn’t engaging—it’s exhausting.

5. Drops and Vendors
If you like the current loot drops, more power to you. But even if you do, they’re still poorly designed. Vendors have been given more power, but drops feel so sparse that crafting currency barely exists. The balance isn’t there. You can’t expect players to engage deeply with crafting when you’re starving them of the resources to do so.

6. The Skill Tree Is Disappointing
The new skill tree looks like POE1’s tree but feels hollow in comparison. The nodes are uninspired, and the restrictive layout makes it harder to create unique or unconventional builds. The inability to travel across the tree freely stifles creativity. And the absence of masteries? It’s a huge loss. Masteries gave builds flexibility and depth, allowing players to specialize and fine-tune their characters. Without them, the tree feels rigid and unexciting. Even basics like Life nodes, which helped define different defensive strategies, are missing, limiting creativity in ways that hurt the game.

7. The Gem System Isn’t Fun
The new gem system isn’t engaging. It’s clunky, and the fact that gems don’t stack just highlights how half-baked it feels. The uncut gem mechanic might seem like an interesting idea, but in practice, it’s just another layer of grind. Gems should feel like an integral part of progression, not a source of frustration.

8. The Campaign Is Too Long
Some players praise the longer campaign, but for leagues, this is a disaster. Every league, we’ll have to slog through this overly long campaign multiple times. POE1’s campaign is already considered a chore by many veterans, and POE2’s is shaping up to be even worse. A longer campaign doesn’t mean better retention—it just means more burnout.

9. Ascendancies and Trials
Why can’t we change ascendancies anymore? Is this supposed to be a challenge? It’s just restrictive for no reason. And Trials… who thought combining Ultimatum and Sanctum mechanics was a good idea? Trials are tedious, clunky, and far from enjoyable. It feels like GGG took the least-loved mechanics and doubled down on them, which is baffling.

I Want to Love POE2, But It’s Hard
As a veteran, I want to see POE2 succeed. I want it to be different, but it also needs to respect the core systems that have kept players invested in POE1 for years. Right now, it feels like GGG is prioritizing their “vision” over what actually works.

To the newer players defending these changes without understanding their long-term impact: you’re not helping. Ignoring valid criticism isn’t supporting the game; it’s enabling bad design. Constructive feedback is what helps games improve. POE2 has the potential to be great, but it needs to address these issues before it alienates the very players who’ve been its foundation for years.

If you keep stuck to archetypes walls you never get new archetypes. GGG seen a chance of doign somethign new and great. Let them try. POE2 already made me swear that I will never ever play a traditional ARPG agin, because they feel utterly outdated and dumb compared to POE2.