Why POE2’s Direction Is Worrying for Veterans and Newcomers Alike

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themozzer#1372 wrote:

Just to add on the note about the "slowed down and more methodical gameplay" they have been bringing up as a core design principle for POE2, from what I have seen in my playthroughs is that this applies to the characters, and not really the enemies/bosses at all.

This. They made the distinction from PoE1 very early on. It’s not PoE 1.2 with updated graphics, but PoE 2 that does its own thing.

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Sandcubicle#5745 wrote:

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themozzer#1372 wrote:

Just to add on the note about the "slowed down and more methodical gameplay" they have been bringing up as a core design principle for POE2, from what I have seen in my playthroughs is that this applies to the characters, and not really the enemies/bosses at all.

This. They made the distinction from PoE1 very early on. It’s not PoE 1.2 with updated graphics, but PoE 2 that does its own thing.

Not sure how people can say this since every patch brings this game closer to POE1.2. Let's go through the nerfs to dificulty shall we. They nerfed white mobs, they nerfed surrounds (killed them entirely in my experience) they nerfed item scarcity (not by much admittedly) they seem to have nerfed bosses although it is not specified what they balanced from my experience they are easier now and they already announced they will nerf respec costs. At the rate they are going this will be POE 1.2 when this game reached it's 1 month anniversary

I disagree honestly, POE2 feels a lot like an improved version of POE1. Most aspects feels much better.


Slower is BETTER here I got bored of playing POE1 because you could zoom 99% of the game WAYYYY too fast and way too easily.

Sure the game needs some balacing and tweeking but still it feels amazing.

I really enjoy this game much more than POE1, it feels SO MUCH better and I'm gonna have more of it.

100% behind that feedback. I love the new engine, looks, the control we have over the character, the feel of the game, but same time it feels... clunky. The game lost it's momentum. Just see how many players played ruthless. There is a reason for that. I don't mind having ruthless mode in Poe 2 as well, but the core game is changing in worrying way.

Plenty of people saying - you still have Poe 1, just go there. Sure, I will, but having a new game in such improved state in some ways will make going back Poe 1 dated graphics, engine, character control feel bad.

Poe 2 can be great, but rn I am worried.

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Protainn#4587 wrote:

100% behind that feedback. I love the new engine, looks, the control we have over the character, the feel of the game, but same time it feels... clunky. The game lost it's momentum. Just see how many players played ruthless. There is a reason for that. I don't mind having ruthless mode in Poe 2 as well, but the core game is changing in worrying way.

Plenty of people saying - you still have Poe 1, just go there. Sure, I will, but having a new game in such improved state in some ways will make going back Poe 1 dated graphics, engine, character control feel bad.

Poe 2 can be great, but rn I am worried.

They NEVER had this much success in the past, the amount of players playing POE2 prove that they have done something right.

I think most people are very much enjoying the game and it is taking the right directions.

I agree with these points, I hope GGG feel our worries and make some considerations.

Disagree, go play your ADHD loot goblin hideout simulator then dork, old game is still here.

Alternatively get another hobby, I spend a lot of time gaming but 8500 hours? You need some help bro.

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diablofdb#3816 wrote:

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Protainn#4587 wrote:

100% behind that feedback. I love the new engine, looks, the control we have over the character, the feel of the game, but same time it feels... clunky. The game lost it's momentum. Just see how many players played ruthless. There is a reason for that. I don't mind having ruthless mode in Poe 2 as well, but the core game is changing in worrying way.

Plenty of people saying - you still have Poe 1, just go there. Sure, I will, but having a new game in such improved state in some ways will make going back Poe 1 dated graphics, engine, character control feel bad.

Poe 2 can be great, but rn I am worried.

They NEVER had this much success in the past, the amount of players playing POE2 prove that they have done something right.

I think most people are very much enjoying the game and it is taking the right directions.

The amount of players playing PoE 2 is mostly thanks to PoE 1 and Diablo 4 being bad. It has nothing to do with PoE 2 by itself.

After 1 month that will change because its really easy to get players thanks to the Hype and using PoE 1 cred.

1. Well, in the same sense a faster paces game also isn't inherently better, and, as we can see in poe1, it brings with it a whole lot of design problems. For now i'm just gonna put aside the whole rabbit hole that is fast monster actions and just focus on the travel skills.
While i definitely see the appeal of them, utlimately for a reactive combat focused game like poe2 they would simply bring too many problems with them. Unless they get massive cooldowns, they would basically trivialise bossing, which anyone can already experience by simply playing with the demon form. The removal of travel skills (or making them conditional) means that bosses, and monsters, can have a much larger variety of attacks that aren't just aoe's.

2. But bosses and stronger enemies simply need a larger hp pool. The only way to make combat truly skill based and not reliant on hp, it would have to be centered around rock, paper, scissors mechanics, or simply be a matter of "who can insta-kill the other first?".
Bosses having larger hp pools isn't immediately artificial difficulty, it simply forces a more careful playstyle on the player since they can't just 1-hit the boss. Drawing combat out does increase difficulty, because it forces the player to memorise attacks, the best way to avoid them, and when their build allows for dmg windows.

3. But we also have a much lower reliance on flask charges with utility flasks being removed. And if hp/mana flasks were basically infinite, then it would also force the entire combat pacing into the "who can 1-shot the enemy first?" mindset. Putting a rough limit of flask charge aquisition forces the player to think about their approach more, which utlimately forces different build choices.

4. I would agree with the notion that there still needs to be a small increase in currency drops. Which would also how they would want us to craft. We already have deterministic crafting in the game, in the form of essences and omens, but yes, they're much less available and fewer in numbers than in poe1. Peronsally i think that's fine. As annoying as it can be, non-deterministic crafting does increase the value of ground loot. And the more deterministic methods exist to craft gear, the bigger of a mistake it becomes to use currency for non-deterministic crafting.
We also have to keep in mind that we're currently figuring out the absolute baseline for crafting. Upcoming leagues will surely bring with them their own ways of increasing players power and/or crafting, regardless whether they're temporary or permanent. I absolutely understand that it can feel that a vital part of the game got lost in the "sequel", which is something i dislike in general. But in the case of poe 2 it's incredibly important that the baseline is in the right place.
If the baseline is too high, then it can invalidate a large part of the game/changes.

5. With this i agree. Currency drops should be either generally buffed, or made more common to drop from bossfights.
Also in regards to chests, i feel like each rarity of chest should drop at least 1 gear piece of its corresponding rarity.

6. Currently my only real complaint is the layout of travel nodes. It definitely feels like some areas are too far away, and having to pick 5+ travel nodes just to get somewhere just doesn't feel enjoyable.
But i absolutely disagree with life nodes adding an element of "creativity". Life and resistance nodes did nothing but dictate the players passive tree layout, by basically being a requirement, and removing them is an absolute positive. The different defensive strategies simply shifted to gear, which doesn't mean they disappeared entirely.

7. How is it any more grindy than leveling gems, vaaling them, or getting a 6-link? And how exactly does it feel "clunky"?
The Gems now carry a large amount of power just by themselves, and support gems have been far more of a tool to add flavour, rather than having 3/5 dictated mandatory gems.

8. I would reserve my judgement of the campaign length until it's actually fully implemented and we had a few runs of it. Going through the poe 1 campaign for the first time can easily take 30-40h.
And if poe 2's area/map sized get cut down slightly, combined with us learning more about the locations of important travel points, it'll speed up the campaign by a lot. Player gear and power also play a big role in that, and until we have a better balance in that regard we'll never have a full picture.

"10." Personally i think vets need to stop thinking about the poe 1 "vision", stop comparing the 2 games directly when so many, albeit similar, systems have an entirely new context, and simply judge poe 2 on it's own rather than against poe 1.
You say you want it to be different, but so many of your points dirently want it to go back to how poe 1 works.

Also, shutting out the opinion of new players is just as harmful as shutting out the opinions of veterans. Every new player is a potential new poe veteran, and veterans are doing the game no good by trying to keep new players away.

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NickyRick#1268 wrote:

No one in their right mind will want to repeat an entire campaign with giant maps, oneshots of common enemies and tiny exp every 3-4 months.

Well judging by this forum, some people are not really in their right mind :p :p
They'll quickly snap out of it.