Why POE2’s Direction Is Worrying for Veterans and Newcomers Alike

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Querker#1809 wrote:

But that will happen with POE2 anyway. The "pro" good at POE1 not because there is an option to blitz around, but because he knows how to do that, he has mechanical skills to sustain such speeds and react to something happening and he understands the game enough so his character is not dying after jumping in the next monster pack. POE 2 has a blink since day 1, together with other options of travelling like leap slams, stampede or flicker. And those, who invested more time to learning how to make them work will make them work. So prepare to get more frustrated.

"Enigma" is considered the most overpowered runeword in d2 for the same reason. People adapted to using items with teleport charges. And they are flying through the game with somewhat comparable to poe1 speeds.

There's zero "mechanical skill" involved in PoE1 play, nor does anyone using a PoE1 Zoomer Boomer Blaster Master Must-Go-Faster build "react" to a single goddamn thing. They can't. They physically, biologically cannot; they've made their build move faster than the human nervous system can process data. Those builds are faster than the physiological reflexes of the human body, and generally designed with some manner of autotargeted triggered movement like Bodyswap to account for this.

Someone running a "normal, ordinary, and expected" PoE1 build does not actually play PoE1 - they simply hold down the Explosions button, watch the utterly unreadable chaos on their screen, and listen for their loot filter to tell them when they need to let go of the button long enough to pick up one of their five hundred thousand drops.

This is the level to which all of you folks are trying to push PoE2. And the rest of us will protest vehemently until and unless it happens, at which point we will simply quit PoE2 like most of us quit PoE1, and the second game will wind up as dead in the water as the first.

-1 POE2s direction doesnt worry me as a veteran

I only had a couple hundred hours on POE1, and honestly, most of what you're saying is hitting the nail on the head, the diablo 4 andy's are not helping at all crying about what *they* want changed when it's not relevant to the game category.

But - by over simplifying and restricting the players individuality with builds, they are just forcing everyone to copy/paste the exact same build to get any form of fun out of late game, I for one was majorly dissapointed with the lack of ability to customize and spent about 20 hours grinding just to reroll some gambles on gear because even at late game that is the only viable way to craft gear currently and it is a major let down compared to POE1.

It's a different game yes, but GGG need to learn from their mistakes.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

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Querker#1809 wrote:

But that will happen with POE2 anyway. The "pro" good at POE1 not because there is an option to blitz around, but because he knows how to do that, he has mechanical skills to sustain such speeds and react to something happening and he understands the game enough so his character is not dying after jumping in the next monster pack. POE 2 has a blink since day 1, together with other options of travelling like leap slams, stampede or flicker. And those, who invested more time to learning how to make them work will make them work. So prepare to get more frustrated.

"Enigma" is considered the most overpowered runeword in d2 for the same reason. People adapted to using items with teleport charges. And they are flying through the game with somewhat comparable to poe1 speeds.

There's zero "mechanical skill" involved in PoE1 play, nor does anyone using a PoE1 Zoomer Boomer Blaster Master Must-Go-Faster build "react" to a single goddamn thing. They can't. They physically, biologically cannot; they've made their build move faster than the human nervous system can process data. Those builds are faster than the physiological reflexes of the human body, and generally designed with some manner of autotargeted triggered movement like Bodyswap to account for this.

Someone running a "normal, ordinary, and expected" PoE1 build does not actually play PoE1 - they simply hold down the Explosions button, watch the utterly unreadable chaos on their screen, and listen for their loot filter to tell them when they need to let go of the button long enough to pick up one of their five hundred thousand drops.

This is the level to which all of you folks are trying to push PoE2. And the rest of us will protest vehemently until and unless it happens, at which point we will simply quit PoE2 like most of us quit PoE1, and the second game will wind up as dead in the water as the first.

To be fair, that's a pretty SC-Trade specific phenomenon. PoE 1 is much more than that. There aren't many SSF builds that work like that. Certainly not many HC builds, since there you typically need to actually see at minimum where you're currently standing.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

There's zero "mechanical skill" involved in PoE1 play, nor does anyone using a PoE1 Zoomer Boomer Blaster Master Must-Go-Faster build "react" to a single goddamn thing. They can't. They physically, biologically cannot; they've made their build move faster than the human nervous system can process data. Those builds are faster than the physiological reflexes of the human body, and generally designed with some manner of autotargeted triggered movement like Bodyswap to account for this.

Someone running a "normal, ordinary, and expected" PoE1 build does not actually play PoE1 - they simply hold down the Explosions button, watch the utterly unreadable chaos on their screen, and listen for their loot filter to tell them when they need to let go of the button long enough to pick up one of their five hundred thousand drops.

This is the level to which all of you folks are trying to push PoE2. And the rest of us will protest vehemently until and unless it happens, at which point we will simply quit PoE2 like most of us quit PoE1, and the second game will wind up as dead in the water as the first.

Looks like its finally a time for someone, whos defending poe1, say this

skill issue, git gud

Like if you think that there is no skill involved - you are lying to yourself for not being capable to stay on par with everyone else. Either you dont understand how much work is required to achieve a character power to make that real. If that was so easy - poe1 feedback wouldve never had "i hate fcking oneshots" topics in the first place.

POE 2 actually uses the same systems to slow the game pace as ruthless did. No teleportation and cucking on deterministic craft. How you managed to reach a conclusion that it is that different in both titles - idk. Many people who actually played ruthless agree about similarities. Giving bosses larger healthpools is not an artificial slowdown? Making them fully regenerate instead of partially regenerate is not an artificial slowdown? Cucking any progress after death is not an artificial slowdown? Dunno, even poe1 ruth is not that harsh and people tend to think otherwise.

About "normal and ordinary". Yes, its an issue. Its not an issue of zooming, its an issue of creating a sandbox which encourages playing the game on your own rather than copying a build guide. Zooming is a reward for putting more time and brain work in making your character and adapting to that playstyle. When people use prepared builds as shortcuts to achieve such reward - its their loss if the gameplay is good from start to finish. Such builds are not appearing out of blue, people still need to finish campaign, people still need to finish lab, people still need to fill the atlas, people still need to kill first ubers to make an actual screen deleters. Such system allows for shortcuts with trade, but then you wont be able to progress further without putting somthing valuable on the market, which would still require you to progress.

But banning zooming creates a different definition of zooming nonetheless, thats why 35% ms boots are (or were, if the market is not overflown) much more expensive to get compared to other gear options. When your build starts to work - you are running through content effortlessly. You stop dying, you kill monsters as fast as possible and you cover the distance between them as fast as possible. A gameplay loop of any endgame in any arpg. Any attempt to slow that will be called artificial.

And yes, this game is a visual mess to even worse extent than its predecessor. The removal of certain on-death effects clearly indicates that. In late mapping there is a ton of shit happening on the screen. All of the league mechanics make monsters appear around you instead of you "zooming" to them - is it actually makes a different experience? At least we know that poe1 tools offer enough to overcome such issues. Here we are still trying to understand what was the "vision".

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1453R#7804 wrote:

There's zero "mechanical skill" involved in PoE1 play, nor does anyone using a PoE1 Zoomer Boomer Blaster Master Must-Go-Faster build "react" to a single goddamn thing. They can't. They physically, biologically cannot; they've made their build move faster than the human nervous system can process data. Those builds are faster than the physiological reflexes of the human body, and generally designed with some manner of autotargeted triggered movement like Bodyswap to account for this.

Someone running a "normal, ordinary, and expected" PoE1 build does not actually play PoE1 - they simply hold down the Explosions button, watch the utterly unreadable chaos on their screen, and listen for their loot filter to tell them when they need to let go of the button long enough to pick up one of their five hundred thousand drops.

This is the level to which all of you folks are trying to push PoE2. And the rest of us will protest vehemently until and unless it happens, at which point we will simply quit PoE2 like most of us quit PoE1, and the second game will wind up as dead in the water as the first.

I'm gonna be honest, stop saying "all of you". It's amazingly tiring to read everytime because it's completely disingenuous and throws your entire argument into the trash when you lump together people in "Sides". As someone who was on and off PoE1 since it's beta, I've never argued that this game needs to be faster or "Zoom" as you put it. Screens are already blowing up, the games visually clarity is entirely gone. My issue in this game lies in cheap deaths, poor balancing decisions and general design ideas that need to be looked at, at some point down the road. The Endgame in PoE2, needs a lot of work right now, but even the campaign's balance is questionable at best. Stop lumping people together and instead address individual arguments.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

Someone running a "normal, ordinary, and expected" PoE1 build does not actually play PoE1 - they simply hold down the Explosions button, watch the utterly unreadable chaos on their screen, and listen for their loot filter to tell them when they need to let go of the button long enough to pick up one of their five hundred thousand drops.

This is the level to which all of you folks are trying to push PoE2.

Fighting the demotivating aspects of extreme exp punishments, fighting casino crafting, fighting for build variety and an impactful skill tree does NOT result in the scenery you paint, it does NOT make "all of you folks" a homogeneous entity, it does NOT contribute to the attestable criticism given, you're just trying to divide opinions into enemies and saviors without providing constructive ideas.

Your simplifications circumvent talking about the real problems, about the arguments, about the drawbacks. Your unhinged call for seperation is a shame for this respectful community and for the work OP made to line out problems that do exsist.

You hit the nail on the head. Especially the part about crafting! Crafting is a complete and utter joke. That was one of the biggest appeals to me in PoE 1 and now its all but gone completely. GGG needs to focus on getting a good crafting system in place before focusing so much time on nerfing builds at this point.

Good post, would read again.

Everything you've said is correct but it sucks that you have to post your Steam library to get taken seriously.