Why POE2’s Direction Is Worrying for Veterans and Newcomers Alike

"

Kaukus1#7461 wrote:

"

jollydiablo#0370 wrote:

You want a bigger skill tree, faster combat, a shorter campaigns, easier bosses and an easier game. You have that essentially, its POE1. You do realize that's what you're asking for, right?

And new players can't express themselves because ...we're contributing to a bad design?

No, that doesn't mean that new players can't have an opinion.
It means that old players have already experienced all these ‘flaws’ in POE1 and know that the players who stay, don't stay for Ruthless.
It means that players who haven't played POE1 can't make a comparison at all, how could they?

"

jollydiablo#0370 wrote:

You want a bigger skill tree

This sentence alone shows me that new players like you don't understand comparisons.
Nobody wants a ‘bigger tree’.
Read my text again.
I'm talking about the quality of the nodes. Lack of creative possibilities.
Read again


It is mostly people with such accounts who shoot against and hate POE1

It's almost like the people who stayed know why they stayed lol

"

Blade_Dancer_90#3602 wrote:

"

Sutopia#6937 wrote:

"

Blade_Dancer_90#3602 wrote:

that's because my dear uneducated wannabe gamer looter ARPGs are NOT balanced around "mechanical skill"... they're balanced around numbers, builds and game knowledge...

And by the way, if try to make one of those "PoE1 Zoomer Boomer Blaster Master Must-Go-Faster" builds on your own without the knowledge of the game I guarantee you that you won't make it out of the campaign or you'll barely make it into maps... and THAT is the challenge of the game... a challenge that is intellectual and not a "space key timing check" that is literally designed for zero IQ gamers that cannot bother to actually LEARN SOMETHING...

Go make a blaster build in PoE1 without a guide... I dare you!!!

You lack the game knowledge... but you don't want a challenge... you want an artificial bullshit challenge of only needing to learn to hit space key at the right moment because you don't have the mental capacity to learn to play an ACTUALLY challenging game that requires you to learn stuff...

Copying someone elses meta build is challenging, got it. This shows how much challenge you’re willing to take, you’ve self reported, thank you for your cooperation.

For all intensive purposes if a genre is called “action” rpg, lacking action is not what someone would expect. Might as well play jrpg when spreadsheet gives you deterministic results.

No, copying a build is not challenging... making your own IS!!! In PoE2 you HAVE to copy one of the 10 at most viable builds to even play the game...

Also I wrote MAKE A BUILD ON Y0UR OWN!!! I specifically said that but you have no arguments because you're not capable of coming up with one...

Go tap space key all day monkey brains!!!

You don't even play poe 1 and preaching about making blaster build. What kind of blasting build you make ? Dried lake / Blood Aqueduct blaster ?

I respect whatever the developers want to do with this game, whether it's to make it fast paced or slow.

However, for the sake of everyone's sanity, I wish they would clearly speak about their intent and roadmap, instead of hiding in the shadows or being ambiguous about it.

It would save a lot of player's time and money, myself included. I personally enjoy a slower game and will drop this game the moment they make their intent that the endgame is suppose to be fast paced. I want an endgame more like Act 3 paced, although they'd have to shrink the maps considerably.

But what I want doesn't matter, just do whatever you want devs, but please LET US KNOW YOUR INTENT. TY TY!

"

Blade_Dancer_90#3602 wrote:

In PoE2 you HAVE to copy one of the 10 at most viable builds to even play the game...

such a weird take.


my mrs has never played poe1, shes played a small amount of D3 + D4 and has never made her own build in an arpg before.


in poe2 she picked merc right away from watching the reveal footage, made her own passive tree, chose her own skills and supports with essentially 0 input from me and shes level 82 in maps blasting with her crossbow having loads of fun doing breaches and expeditions.



poe2 is so much easier for a new player to put together their own build and have it be functional.

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

You can argue that "looter shooters" are different from isometric Diablesque ARPGs, sure. I can further argue whether the distinction is meaningful. Both are loot-centric "action" games with a focus on buildcraft and improving your character power through the acquisition of Better Stuff. Borderlands simply made playing the game itself fun, as opposed to the Diablesque formula of making "Playing The Game", moment to moment, be a boring and annoying tax you have to pay for the dopamine hit of Finding Cool Stuff.

Path 2 is attempting to do much the same, by combining the essentials of strong action games with a core of "looter" gear progression to create something new.

yep.


the way i see it is like its filling in a gap. when they put real time combat into Diablo 1 it wasnt an intention that it was bad, it was just the limitations of what was possible at the time.

top down shooters on the early pc, amiga etc like alien breed, gauntlet, chaos engine, we had a joystick so you could only fire the same direction as you were moving. a modern twin stick shooter is way more advanced and capable. it wasnt that they wanted the games to be shit back then it was just the limitations, the lack of evolution in the design spce.



i think what poe2 is trying to do to combat is what poe1 did to endgame. diablo 2 didnt have endgame, when poe launched diablo 3 didnt have endgame either. the players created an endgame in the diablo games themselves by just repeating parts of the game.

poe1 evolved the genre, TL2 had some features too, but really its PoE that takes this neglected area of the game and evolves it, creates the endgame arpg.


the real time combat is there from diablo 1/2, players are grinding endgame in diablo 2. but these areas are almost vacant in terms of game design and evolution. theyre gaps in the genre where a placeholder has just been sitting waiting for someone to come along and design something worthy of a great game.


i dont personally feel like its going against the genre or breaking with 'how these games should be'. its being able to make the sort of game the older developers would have wished they could make back then if they could even have envisioned such a thing.

++

"

veldesn#6272 wrote:

I respect whatever the developers want to do with this game, whether it's to make it fast paced or slow.

However, for the sake of everyone's sanity, I wish they would clearly speak about their intent and roadmap, instead of hiding in the shadows or being ambiguous about it.

It would save a lot of player's time and money, myself included. I personally enjoy a slower game and will drop this game the moment they make their intent that the endgame is suppose to be fast paced. I want an endgame more like Act 3 paced, although they'd have to shrink the maps considerably.

But what I want doesn't matter, just do whatever you want devs, but please LET US KNOW YOUR INTENT. TY TY!

Agreed. The game, as it stands currently, has two opposing designs: A slower and more tactical campaign, and an endgame that's all about speed clearing. Granted, maps are the least tested aspect as of the EA launch, but it should have been obvious from anyone designing the end-game paths that it was contraire to the campaign.

So, yes, clarity would be appreciated. :)

"

CycloneJack#6077 wrote:

The game, as it stands currently, has two opposing designs: A slower and more tactical campaign, and an endgame that's all about speed clearing.

It's not really "opposites", it's character progression.

We all play ARPGs to be powerful. As powerful as possible. How do you make players feel powerful? You can't really do that and still preserve a "slow and methodical gameplay". If you did, the only power a character would get, are numbers on a stat sheet which doesn't translate to gameplay because monsters scale with you.

The only two ways of really making a character FEEL more powerful, are speed (offensively and defensively, reactive speed and movement speed) and clear (larger AoE, more arrows, on-hit effects etc.). If it wasn't for these two elements, you would go through the acts and the endgame doing the same thing versus harder and harder enemies while never really feeling the progression.

I am VERY(!) glad that GGG understands this, and Jonathan has even mentioned it directly.

Now, is the power curve ramping up too fast in PoE 2 at the moment? Arguably it is, as we really start feeling the ramp-up already in act 4. But we really do not know if that is the case when they add the "real" act 4, and the new acts might be balanced equally to your power. But at the end of the acts and throughout the endgame, things SHOULD ramp up. That's the whole idea of an endgame, at least in my mind. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole if my powerlevels didn't increase. There is NO point in progressing through an "endless" endgame without power gains.

(Why POE2’s Direction Is Worrying for Veterans and Newcomers Alike)

not sure i will say Veterans or more act4 Veterans where the game become more easy with new player

delete remove plz

"

Timbo Zero#8289 wrote:

"

Kaukus1#7461 wrote:

"

jollydiablo#0370 wrote:

You want a bigger skill tree, faster combat, a shorter campaigns, easier bosses and an easier game. You have that essentially, its POE1. You do realize that's what you're asking for, right?

And new players can't express themselves because ...we're contributing to a bad design?

No, that doesn't mean that new players can't have an opinion.
It means that old players have already experienced all these ‘flaws’ in POE1 and know that the players who stay, don't stay for Ruthless.
It means that players who haven't played POE1 can't make a comparison at all, how could they?

"

jollydiablo#0370 wrote:

You want a bigger skill tree

This sentence alone shows me that new players like you don't understand comparisons.
Nobody wants a ‘bigger tree’.
Read my text again.
I'm talking about the quality of the nodes. Lack of creative possibilities.
Read again


It is mostly people with such accounts who shoot against and hate POE1

Truly baffles me that players (from that profile it’s clear, never even finished act 1 in 12 years) that disliked Poe that much would have even tried poe2 tbh
“Hate sci-fi so much I never finished original star wars but I’ll give phantom menace a go” lol

I played the beta and poe 1 didn't hook me at all. just didn't feel good. But I put like 400 into poe 2, but its starting to fall flat at endgame.