ES is broken

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Poe2WarriorMan#6401 wrote:

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GKone1990#1687 wrote:

Yeah health needs to be adjusted to be on par with ES.

Maybe tweak how much life you get per strength. 90% of my gear has life on it 252 str and only 2.5k life. . .

I think with a decent level of investment most health based characters should be able to achieve between 3.5-4.5k life at least (even that would still feel low with how much damage you can take).

To make things scaled on par with current POE2 es you’d have to give more than triple the amount of base life to someone without it also being available to the person who IS stacking ES

ES in PoE simple needs to be toned down


My endurance charges do nothing but provide regen if I spend them for example. Something that would offset people in a different part of the tree or have MASSIVE damage reduction(like in PoE1 endurance charges) or through armour that we can’t even achieve yet in POE2

There is nothing out there that is on equal footing as 7-10k energy shield currently. Either you have it or you don’t

I dont think its that easy as triple the amount of health. My character with 7.5k life would pretty much never die lol. We do have defensive tools available its just at the moment the life values are a little to low. A lot of damage you take can easily 1 shot you. Increasing the life a bit may help prevent this. Also the new patch reducing monster crit damage may help a little too.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Poe2WarriorMan#6401 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Completely intended, people can easily make 20k es builds in PoE 1. The 3 defences in the game are:ES,Evasion and Armor. It just so happens that stacking a lot of ES can get you a huge health pool, but at most you'll have like 50% evasion so you'll still take full damage from hits most of the time since your armor is 0.

Just follow a meta build with high amounts of ES and enjoy the game by blasting maps without a care in the world. It's what makes PoE fun.

Also free immunity to chaos damage with CI is pretty convenient to have. Means you can just res cap and not think about chaos damage or poison at all.

First off this isn’t PoE 1.

Second you cannot scale health at all on the tree in poe2

Third ES has 0 to to with armour and evasion. You don’t go to 0 armour or evasion and you die.


Do you play Poe 2?



There is fundamentally something wrong when someone can invest in the same health amount (plus or minus 500) but then get 7-10k+ ES on top of that just because they rolled X class. And you without ES have no way to even come close to the amount of defense that other class gets.

The 3 types of equipment in the game are: Items with pure energy shield, pure evasion, pure armor and their hybrid combos. Energy Shield is a defense stat on items. Thus it's on the skill tree, just like how evasion and armor nodes exist on the tree. Again, nothing wrong with ES. It's always been OP and it ain't changing because it's a core part of the game's defensive stats.

Also the "this isn't poe 1" argument has literally 0 weight or meaning when it's been repeated so many times now.

It's not OP in POE1 because there are things you can actually do to scale the other defensives when you are in a different part of the tree. The current SCALING could use tuning like the tricksters we saw come out of Settlers but ES is not an OP stat

(endurance charges, armour, and life are what offset the other side(s) of the tree.

You also get fort as well

These are all things that are in favor of being a marauder in POE1 as you have access to all of these versus some trickster who is on the opposite side of the tree with a crap ton of ES.


You dont get ANY of that in POE2.

You cant scale armour high enough
Endurance charges do nothing
There is no fortification
There is no health nodes (well there is a single 3% one but thats it)


Again do you play POE2? There's a reason it works in POE1 but it doesnt work here as there is

NOTHING COMPARABLE to 7-10k extra health pool


You cant block but you get massive evasion and have 10k more life? LOL???


You get armour but that does nothing against spells that just physical damage redution.

ES is EVERYTHING that gets thrown at you.



And thats not the worst part.


The worst part is most of them are all ranged players


So you are walking around, with 7-10k extra ES being like "HEY WARRIOR NICE BLOCK AND ARMOUR THAT DOES NOTHING, WATCH ME SURVIVE THIS ONE SHOT BECAUSE I CAN HAHA"

The cope here on people with their absolute broken archetypes is crazy.

Energy shield is not life. Energy shield is considered a Defence stat, just like Armour or Evasion. All 3 work differently to achieve the same goal - to lessen or mitigate damage to health.

You can achieve similar results on Armour builds, taking all the Inc % and More armour nodes, theoretically getting up to 90% physical damage reduction. That's like taking your life and multiplying it by 9. Realistically if you get 75% res and 75% phys reduction that still means your EHP is like 3x HP.

With ES, unless you do hybrids, once it's gone, you have (almost) no other mitigation. Except for Resistances, but everyone has resistances so that is an equal playing field.

Stop confusing the two.

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cVGhost#3152 wrote:

Energy shield is not life. Energy shield is considered a Defence stat, just like Armour or Evasion. All 3 work differently to achieve the same goal - to lessen or mitigate damage to health.

You can achieve similar results on Armour builds, taking all the Inc % and More armour nodes, theoretically getting up to 90% physical damage reduction. That's like taking your life and multiplying it by 9. Realistically if you get 75% res and 75% phys reduction that still means your EHP is like 3x HP.

With ES, unless you do hybrids, once it's gone, you have (almost) no other mitigation. Except for Resistances, but everyone has resistances so that is an equal playing field.

Stop confusing the two.

ES is =/= armour and evasion. Sorry but you have a massive misunderstanding of defenses in POE in general if you are trying to equate these things.

Energy shield is extra health pool.
Armour and evasion are not.


Show me on the tree right now on the bottom left where I can scale any defensive stat that will be the equivalent of 10k extra health pool. (you cant this is redundant)

You also have to take int to even wear and start scaling these base types, losing some of my health and power (as a warrior), so that I can get gear that I will eventually not even beable to scale because im on the bottom left of the tree.

Where there is nothing comparable to es scaling

All the things in POE1 that are present that help alleviate this problem are not there in POE2

Enough armour
Fortification
Endurance charges for elemental
Spell suppress
Health nodes

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Poe2WarriorMan#6401 wrote:

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cVGhost#3152 wrote:

Energy shield is not life. Energy shield is considered a Defence stat, just like Armour or Evasion. All 3 work differently to achieve the same goal - to lessen or mitigate damage to health.

You can achieve similar results on Armour builds, taking all the Inc % and More armour nodes, theoretically getting up to 90% physical damage reduction. That's like taking your life and multiplying it by 9. Realistically if you get 75% res and 75% phys reduction that still means your EHP is like 3x HP.

With ES, unless you do hybrids, once it's gone, you have (almost) no other mitigation. Except for Resistances, but everyone has resistances so that is an equal playing field.

Stop confusing the two.

ES is =/= armour and evasion. Sorry but you have a massive misunderstanding of defenses in POE in general if you are trying to equate these things.

Energy shield is extra health pool.
Armour and evasion are not.


Show me on the tree right now on the bottom left where I can scale any defensive stat that will be the equivalent of 10k extra health pool. (you cant this is redundant)

You also have to take int to even wear and start scaling these base types, losing some of my health and power (as a warrior), so that I can get gear that I will eventually not even beable to scale because im on the bottom left of the tree.

Where there is nothing comparable to es scaling

All the things in POE1 that are present that help alleviate this problem are not there in POE2

Enough armour
Fortification
Endurance charges for elemental
Spell suppress
Health nodes

dude u are wrong and Ghost is right. Thats just Math.

Its all about the EHP

10k ES has an EHP for phys attacks of 10k
a 5k life 50% armour medi has an EHP for Phys attacks of 10k

its this simple

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fouquet#0993 wrote:

Pure int ES base shield doesn't block.

Everyone else has active block shields.

You can use a shield with ES gear, I do because its cheap. 50% block and 7k ES and with enough currency I could get close to 10k ES.

Removing health from the tree was a mistake tbh, now you just trade them for defense nodes, and ES and/or mana+MoM is king.

Block is also kind of a meme, scariest stuff in this game and poe1 is usually degens or unblockable attacks.

My pure ES sorceress with her 2000 ES can't even survive the wimpiest white poison spewer in T1 maps. I'm certainly not going pure ES again anytime soon. At least not at that stage of ES quantity.

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Sp4wNi#0908 wrote:

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Poe2WarriorMan#6401 wrote:

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cVGhost#3152 wrote:

Energy shield is not life. Energy shield is considered a Defence stat, just like Armour or Evasion. All 3 work differently to achieve the same goal - to lessen or mitigate damage to health.

You can achieve similar results on Armour builds, taking all the Inc % and More armour nodes, theoretically getting up to 90% physical damage reduction. That's like taking your life and multiplying it by 9. Realistically if you get 75% res and 75% phys reduction that still means your EHP is like 3x HP.

With ES, unless you do hybrids, once it's gone, you have (almost) no other mitigation. Except for Resistances, but everyone has resistances so that is an equal playing field.

Stop confusing the two.

ES is =/= armour and evasion. Sorry but you have a massive misunderstanding of defenses in POE in general if you are trying to equate these things.

Energy shield is extra health pool.
Armour and evasion are not.


Show me on the tree right now on the bottom left where I can scale any defensive stat that will be the equivalent of 10k extra health pool. (you cant this is redundant)

You also have to take int to even wear and start scaling these base types, losing some of my health and power (as a warrior), so that I can get gear that I will eventually not even beable to scale because im on the bottom left of the tree.

Where there is nothing comparable to es scaling

All the things in POE1 that are present that help alleviate this problem are not there in POE2

Enough armour
Fortification
Endurance charges for elemental
Spell suppress
Health nodes

dude u are wrong and Ghost is right. Thats just Math.

Its all about the EHP

10k ES has an EHP for phys attacks of 10k
a 5k life 50% armour medi has an EHP for Phys attacks of 10k

its this simple

You cant reach 5k life, at least I havent seen it. And 50% PDR is just PHYSICAL DAMAGE

You know the whole --->P<--- in PDR???

Learn what things mean before using them.

Youll want to look at max hit not EHP when determining what is a good defense and not. EHP does not help you once you have base max hit high enough.

Also when it comes to large hits, I dont know if you know this about armour or not, but its less effective.

50% PDR to a mob attacking you is not the same as 50% PDR to a boss slamming you.

The larger the hit the less relative armour becomes.
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Armour


ES doesnt discriminate for this. Thats why to survive boss slams in POE you need 60k+ armour (which you cant get in POE2)

I'm just laughing at the lengths people go to defend Energy Shield. It's disgustingly OP and nothing else can compare.

It's an unbalanced "defense" at the design level. Evasion doesn't work against AoE. Armour only works against small-medium amounts of physical damage only. But Energy Shield can do it all, against every damage type!

Don't forget that it even outcompetes an advanced defense like Block, which cannot defend against AoE without a specific Ascendency's passive. Block also doesn't work against highlighted attacks. Guess what? Energy Shield does.

It's downsides? Completely nullified by Keystones accessible to anyone and anybody. Where's the keystone that lets Armour mitigate elemental and chaos damage? Nowhere to be seen. I guess a Warrior with 2k Life would be too OP if he could do that...

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You cant reach 5k life, at least I havent seen it. And 50% PDR is just PHYSICAL DAMAGE

You know the whole --->P<--- in PDR???

Learn what things mean before using them.

Youll want to look at max hit not EHP when determining what is a good defense and not. EHP does not help you once you have base max hit high enough.

Also when it comes to large hits, I dont know if you know this about armour or not, but its less effective.

50% PDR to a mob attacking you is not the same as 50% PDR to a boss slamming you.

The larger the hit the less relative armour becomes.
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Armour


ES doesnt discriminate for this. Thats why to survive boss slams in POE you need 60k+ armour (which you cant get in POE2)

I love that you keep just rabidly saying JUST PDR as if phys damage isn't the most common type with almost every monster attack doing a portion of phys. Armor also gets immunity to fire damage from hits on the tree (which mitigates ignite damage in poe 2) and ES is far weaker to chaos unless you go CI. Evasion and block work against spells now too so they got a huge buff. Our 2 melee ascendancies also get crazy defenses in their trees. You're being silly