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arbitrary mechanics designed to create artificial difficulty
Oh dear, it looks like you've mentioned the artificial difficulty meme, even though all difficulty is artificial since it's a video game. Maybe you meant to say "Thing I don't like."
this person gets it
Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4.
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Posted byalhazred70#2994on Dec 31, 2024, 10:37:48 PM
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When I was a child I wished to be a game designer but I'm happy that I didn't seeing how hard it is to satisfy all kinds of people.
Thats the thing you shouldn't really even try, just make a game with an artistic design you want to make and let people who dig it play and everyone else can bounce off.
Ofc your want your game to be successful enough to keep the game going and provide the devs with a good living. But the moment you start bastardizing your design goals to pander to too many different tates you end up with D4...
and honestly POE1 for that matter at least the clear speed meta years. Most of the "division" here is from people who want POE2 to be a clone of the design mistake quagmire that is POE1.
We have so many people around here who think game designers exist to make them miserable with nerfs and "chores", as if they would be the most happy if the game had a "I win" button that would instantly give you every item and 100 levels. Never once wondering why a game needs obstacles, weight or friction. Viewing those things as sadistic punishment instead of necessity for a game to even be a game.
without meaningful choices a game turns into pachinko.
Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4.
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Posted byalhazred70#2994on Dec 31, 2024, 10:53:36 PM
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"Mobs don't kill me"
Tell me you've never played POE2 without telling me you've never played POE2.
Tell me you never had cloak of flame without telling me you never had cloak of flame xD
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Posted byMotherpigeon#1697on Jan 1, 2025, 5:30:24 PM
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MY suggestion is to stop playing, and don't post on the forums any longer. You obviously don't like the game and you aren't giving valuable feedback. You are just complaining that its boring. Go do something else
Where was your feedback valid? They exactly stated why it was boring for them so what is the problem? Not complaining about stuff you don't like and saying "early access mantra" is what is [Removed by Support]. The early access point is exactly to make sure we can find a middle ground for most.
Last edited by JC_GGG#0000 on Jan 2, 2025, 6:40:43 AM
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Posted byMotherpigeon#1697on Jan 1, 2025, 5:34:26 PM
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When I was a child I wished to be a game designer but I'm happy that I didn't seeing how hard it is to satisfy all kinds of people.
Thats the thing you shouldn't really even try, just make a game with an artistic design you want to make and let people who dig it play and everyone else can bounce off.
Ofc your want your game to be successful enough to keep the game going and provide the devs with a good living. But the moment you start bastardizing your design goals to pander to too many different tates you end up with D4...
and honestly POE1 for that matter at least the clear speed meta years. Most of the "division" here is from people who want POE2 to be a clone of the design mistake quagmire that is POE1.
We have so many people around here who think game designers exist to make them miserable with nerfs and "chores", as if they would be the most happy if the game had a "I win" button that would instantly give you every item and 100 levels. Never once wondering why a game needs obstacles, weight or friction. Viewing those things as sadistic punishment instead of necessity for a game to even be a game.
without meaningful choices a game turns into pachinko.
+1
honestly, i think poe1 obviously the greatest arpg ever made, the thing is outrageously good. but, i think it did a lot to warp the perception of what an arpg should be in some really bad ways as well as good.
TL2 had maps but really path of exile invented endgame as a game. when poe launched D3 didnt have rifts and all the shit we got with RoS, D2 essentially had no endgame. PoE wrote the book on how to make a truly great arpg.
it also rotted peoples brains with idiot level lolcopter gameplay. people used to say things like "if you want easy game blah blah go play D3". but D3 was nowhere near as fast and screen nuke nonsense as poe was. however stupid you could make your game in d3 poe was always capable of another level.
i used to get so annoyed with the devs back in the day. i regret being so negative with them in the feedback forum because i really feel like at some point the permatoxic negative for its own sake crowd started to ruin this community.
but i used to complain a lot that they were not looking after the game, they were adding insane power creep that no one was even asking for and every time they did it they couldnt take it back. just recklessly throwing in so much broken shit the game became a joke and that in turn took players down a path its hard to come back from.
even i get a twinge at any sense of resistance cause im so used to just mowing down screens. and no that is not 'what arpgs should be', and it wasnt to anywhere near this extent before poe1.
i really think theres elements to poe2 that are too hard, too punishing. but a lot of it is just something we have to go through, some players are gonna cold turkey and learn to actually play the game again, some are going to get culled and sent back to playing idiot mode in poe1/D3, brains just too broken at this point to ever come back to actual gameplay. it is what it is, ggg created this problem by not keeping shit in check during the mid phase of poe1 and now this is the price to be paid. but it has to be paid because where we ended up was not a game any more, it was a stupid hamsterwheel of dopamine addiction dressed up in an action rpg cosplay.
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Posted bySnorkle_uk#0761on Jan 1, 2025, 7:35:47 PM
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When I was a child I wished to be a game designer but I'm happy that I didn't seeing how hard it is to satisfy all kinds of people.
Thats the thing you shouldn't really even try, just make a game with an artistic design you want to make and let people who dig it play and everyone else can bounce off.
Ofc your want your game to be successful enough to keep the game going and provide the devs with a good living. But the moment you start bastardizing your design goals to pander to too many different tates you end up with D4...
and honestly POE1 for that matter at least the clear speed meta years. Most of the "division" here is from people who want POE2 to be a clone of the design mistake quagmire that is POE1.
We have so many people around here who think game designers exist to make them miserable with nerfs and "chores", as if they would be the most happy if the game had a "I win" button that would instantly give you every item and 100 levels. Never once wondering why a game needs obstacles, weight or friction. Viewing those things as sadistic punishment instead of necessity for a game to even be a game.
without meaningful choices a game turns into pachinko.
+1
honestly, i think poe1 obviously the greatest arpg ever made, the thing is outrageously good. but, i think it did a lot to warp the perception of what an arpg should be in some really bad ways as well as good.
TL2 had maps but really path of exile invented endgame as a game. when poe launched D3 didnt have rifts and all the shit we got with RoS, D2 essentially had no endgame. PoE wrote the book on how to make a truly great arpg.
it also rotted peoples brains with idiot level lolcopter gameplay. people used to say things like "if you want easy game blah blah go play D3". but D3 was nowhere near as fast and screen nuke nonsense as poe was. however stupid you could make your game in d3 poe was always capable of another level.
i used to get so annoyed with the devs back in the day. i regret being so negative with them in the feedback forum because i really feel like at some point the permatoxic negative for its own sake crowd started to ruin this community.
but i used to complain a lot that they were not looking after the game, they were adding insane power creep that no one was even asking for and every time they did it they couldnt take it back. just recklessly throwing in so much broken shit the game became a joke and that in turn took players down a path its hard to come back from.
even i get a twinge at any sense of resistance cause im so used to just mowing down screens. and no that is not 'what arpgs should be', and it wasnt to anywhere near this extent before poe1.
i really think theres elements to poe2 that are too hard, too punishing. but a lot of it is just something we have to go through, some players are gonna cold turkey and learn to actually play the game again, some are going to get culled and sent back to playing idiot mode in poe1/D3, brains just too broken at this point to ever come back to actual gameplay. it is what it is, ggg created this problem by not keeping shit in check during the mid phase of poe1 and now this is the price to be paid. but it has to be paid because where we ended up was not a game any more, it was a stupid hamsterwheel of dopamine addiction dressed up in an action rpg cosplay.
I usually trim quotes down when i reply but this is a god damn good read and I agree whole heartedly.
I honestly, with no snark think that POE1 players who are malding about POE2 are just set into a mindset or expectation that they should be trivializing everything, because:
"I'm a god gamer and if a game doesn't bow to my will, its clearly because the dev's done fucked up".
I also think GGG knew this was going to happen (which is why they correctly forked POE1 and 2 from each other) and thats why there's a nice long couple months before they even talk about the next POE1 league.
To give the players who aren't a lost cause ample time to adapt and de-aclimate.
They literally need intervention to de-tox from POE1's dopamine mainlining. Like DIvers who've been deep for too long... some of them are getting the bends from having to actually engage their brains and game again.
Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4.
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Posted byalhazred70#2994on Jan 1, 2025, 8:52:31 PM
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When I was a child I wished to be a game designer but I'm happy that I didn't seeing how hard it is to satisfy all kinds of people.
Yes once you sort your defense most parts of the game become quite easy. Which is why higher tier maps has a lot of negative effects on you and buffs on mobs which you said that you're ignoring some...
So game is actually easy if build your character and stay in your comfort zone.
Now get some monster attack speed, resistance penetration, critical hit chance, +projectile numbers etc. and try that map.
All difficulty is artificial in a way.
I'm not saying game is perfect. This is my first ever Poe game. However even the hardcore players say when maps juiced in certain ways anything has the possibility of one shooting you.
Also you can play mace character if you want a bit more challenge. It's not always required but even if the mobs are easy, you at least need to make sure you'll not trap yourself in some corner. Any area can become a death trap if certain mob types joins the fight.
make the game YOU want to make.
POE1 is the way it is because GGG had to bend backwards to keep its player base happy. it needed money.
POE2 now has the recognition and financial backing that they can afford players ragequitting poe2 as POE1 still is around.
if you have any dreams of making your own game. just go ahead and do it. theres many game engines available.
tho making a game and selling a game are very much intertwined, you still can make the game that YOU want.
[Removed by Support]
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Posted byexsea#1724on Jan 1, 2025, 9:44:43 PM
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People like it because it's a new game not because it's good. I've tried out most of the archetypes in PoE 2 and they all felt worse than PoE 1 with the exception of monk "melee" that felt very enjoyable to play.
Monk was one of the boring classes to play. I have been enjoying sorc and Witch
Well Monk is a class and not an ascendancy. So you didn't like either of the ascendancies the monk has to offer? Or did you not even get that far?
So you made a lvl 10 monk and was not feeling it?
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Posted byJaenisch#6703on Jan 2, 2025, 2:44:50 AM
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Mechanically shallow. Dodge roll is only useful against bosses who have one shot hits. Once you're in maps on danger comes from on death effects. Just Like PoE this sequel is dull but absorbing. The campaign is good because it offers something different to PoE. Outside the campaign, well, mainly the bosses, you're playing PoE. Not PoE2. Anyone who played Ruthless in PoE has already played PoE2.
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Plays 120h. Finds the game boring.
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