SOLUTION for the hyperinflated Divine Orb issue and Rarity of Items Issue

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Gimatria#7361 wrote:

If people would use Divine orbs more, the price would even increase further since the demand goes up while the supply gets lower.

tell me you didn't read the post without telling me.

what youre saying is obvious, and was discussed.

The problem with the OPs suggestion is that it would make getting perfect items much easier.

I've already said this a few times - here it is again. They need meta global uniques that can be uniquely crafted to fit in most end game builds, providing decent stat markers like baseline HP/ES/MANA/Regen/MF/Skills.

With a LARGE range of stats that require a lot of early game currency to be pumped into. Reaching a average rolled unique of this caliber should be the entry way into end game. The items should be capable of being even better, and require end game currency to develop. Bricked items would be traded down to other players.

It took some time for me to understand the logic of topic starter, but it seems he is right. The prices on market are rising because divines have no decent application. Players are just collecting divines at stashes and are able to pay more and more for decent gear. They don't interesting in exalts anymore, because they can't buy any good stuff for exalts, just for divines. That's why many players are forced to stop trading any early and midgame useful items, that were trading for exalts before. Therefore we got paradoxial situation: divines have limited application exept trading, exalts have solid application at crafting, but exalts are getting cheaper and cheaper at literally every hour growing rate.

That situation already made me 50% poorer for two single days! To be honest, I dunno how to play further, I'm completely losing at the race of endgame gear's prices growing.

Hope, Developers could tune current game's economy to fit the purposes of majority of players.

I bet within a couple weeks they will launch a whole new league that will solve whatever Inflation problems that exist from all the duping of items that occured this EA first league.

Can someone please explain why Divines losing value means price goes up? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Exalts losing value and inflating makes sense, each exalt is worth less now and Divines being rare means they continue to go up in price and cost more exalts as time progresses.

Gear costing more divines as the league progresses is another problem, caused by fewer people playing and farming items for trade and a small subset of efficient players farming a lot of divine orb currency.

However the exalts being worthless is really what's causing this in my opinion.

I think GGG need to fix this in the long term somehow otherwise as per usual POE fashion within a month-ish the league is dead and everyone goes back to another game until the economy resets. Not great!

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Zamolxes7#5151 wrote:

Can someone please explain why Divines losing value means price goes up? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Exalts losing value and inflating makes sense, each exalt is worth less now and Divines being rare means they continue to go up in price and cost more exalts as time progresses.

Gear costing more divines as the league progresses is another problem, caused by fewer people playing and farming items for trade and a small subset of efficient players farming a lot of divine orb currency.

However the exalts being worthless is really what's causing this in my opinion.

I think GGG need to fix this in the long term somehow otherwise as per usual POE fashion within a month-ish the league is dead and everyone goes back to another game until the economy resets. Not great!

I drop one divine my build sucks, but I could get it, I trade it(never use because why use this?) this make the next person do exactly the same think, if I could upgrade the tier or my weapons I would think a little about using it, but why use it otherwise?

what does this make is no one is using Divines, since no one uses the few that drop are traded the trade since there is more and more divines gear get more and more expensive since the quantity of divine just kept getting higher and higher...

to understand is the same as a government printing money, more money means things have less value.

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Cornholio777#1511 wrote:

Basically, the game is a bank which prints money (Currency) but the money that is created is not being used as intended by developers.
Currencies needs to be used and deleted to keep a good balance in the market, but at the moment Divine Orbs are not being deleted enough.

i dont know why people open up solution threads for problems if they dont even understand the basics of the problem.

divine's are not expensive because of no sinks, and more sinks for them would increase their value even more. your solution would make it even worse. if something is rare and the demand high, the item is expensive. if the demand is higher the item is more expensive. i dont know whats so hard to understand here.

I'm happy to see activity to this issue, but lets all keep it civil and respectful! :)

Now, I believe we all underestimate how complicated the economy in Path of Exile 1 and Path of Exile 2, myself included so let me try structure this so we can understand it better.

* Divine Orbs Value, Exalted Orb Value, Currencies Value.
Common question that I see is confusing.
"If Divine Orb values goes down, why do Divine Orb cost more and more Exalted Orbs?"
- This is because Exalted Orbs value is dropping even lower.
As the game progresses, more and more players are reaching endgame and later stages in endgame, and getting more and more exalted orb drops. The supply is increasing drastically. Greater supply (if demand is the same) will lower the value. But the demand of Exalted Orbs is goes down while Supply goes up as people get further into Endgame as the will drop more often and for more players.
I was running Ultimatum maps yesterday, and could easily make around 200 Exalted Orbs in around 2-3 hours with trading and drops.

And lets not forget the Divine Orbs ability is severely unbalanced with the rarity of the item, and that perceived value due to it being one of the main trades for all other currencies and items.
The ability of an currency need to match it's rarity and a few or chunk of them need to be "worth it", which Divine Orbs are not.
- For example, Why spend 1 divine orb on an item to maybe get +10 max life, +5 resistance and so on, when 1 divine orb can buy you a 10x better item in all stats? This needs to change.

* Increasing the value of Divine Orbs.
I'm happy to see people like the idea of this new modifier:
"Randomises the tier of the modifiers on an item"
Some people said this is to OP and would make it easy to make perfect items.
No, it would not. If this were to be implemented and replace the current Divine Orb ability, GGG would have to balance it and make it EXTREMELY hard to get perfect, all max tier or near max tier roll, but the chance being greater in my opinion if you have higher Item Level, minimum Tier X drops and perhaps other factors, I would leave this to GGG to figure out.
And I would introduce another currency to keep the old Divine Orb ability, and this items drop in maps would be more common to better balance and represent and create that natural sink for the value of the ability.

And so I saw this question "Making them MORE useful would inflate the price further, no?"
- No, this would decrease the inflation, this is one topic that took myself time to understand, it's very backwards and at first glance doesn't seem logical.
You must remember everything has an value. Exalted Orbs has a value, Divine Orbs has a value, Alchemy Orb has a value, Unique items have all different values, MODIFIERS have different values, and these are all constantly changing in value.
A GREAT tool for PoE1 to actually see these value go up and down in real-time is https://poe.ninja/
By making Divine Orbs more valuable, then 1 Divine Orb will be able to afford a stronger item.
-- Right now the Divine Orb value is inflated so the value is low.
-- For example, we have an Rare Item with 3 Res stats and max life stats.
Lets say it generally costs 1 Div on the market.
Now if the value of Divine Orb goes down, that same item would now instead cost 3 Div. But make Divine Orb more valuable, 1 Div would actually afford an even better item with 3 res, max life, all skill level up stat.

There's an illusion and confusion that Divine Orbs value is going up because it's costing more and more Exalted Orbs.
No, it's price is going up because Exalted Orbs are losing even more value that is the main trade to get a Divine Orb outside of drops.

* Missing a Divine Orb sink
Now if you're actually reading and not just going "tldr" and posting an uninformed reply anyways, you're starting to understand the issue better.

The need of a "sink". All currencies were designed to be used for it's ability.
The game creates out of thin air currency hence why I drew a comparison to real world economy.
When the game creates currency, the supply goes up. When a demand exist and supply keeps rising, the value goes down.
When something is rare and scarce, the more value it has.
And the opposite is true, when something is very common and everyone has it, it's value goes down.
Everyone is getting more and more Divine Orbs, the supply isn't going down.
EVEN MORE SO, for Exalted Orbs.
Even with the Exalted Orbs more useful ability, but we might underestimate how much Exalted Orbs is being created as more people enters endgame and we probably also underestimate how much people are trading exalts not just for Divine Orbs but for ALL OTHER CURRENCIES on the Currency Exchange AKA Alva.
When trading occurs, the item is not removed from the game so the supply doesn't drop! So the value keeps going down.
The only thing that balances and increases the value is using the item so it gets deleted from the game, and decreasing the supply. The true value being balanced by how rare or how common the drop is.

* Crafting and PoE1
Everyone who played PoE1 will know there was a crafting bench. You could spewd Orbs of Transmutation, Alchemy Orbs, Chaos Orbs, Jeweller's Orb, Chromatic Orb and even Divine Orbs. (and I might even be missing some)
This was keeping balance to these currencies supply because when you used a craft the items are deleted to give you the craft.
I refer you again to https://poe.ninja/economy/settlers/currency
Every currency has a value that changes, every currency value goes up and down depending on it's usage, it's ability, amount of players, this issue is way more complicated than people think.
But the most important point with this is, we do not have a crafting bench in Path of Exile 2.
And for Divine Orbs which have the same function in PoE1, it was Metacrafting, the very expensive and high value advanced crafting mechanices that was providing that sink for Divine Orbs to help balance it's supply, and when it's supply goes down, the value of Divine Orbs goes up, so when 1 divine orb drops in your map, you can purchase better items or more currencies with 1 of them.
Since the value goes down in PoE2, it's affords less and less.
We need something like this back or currencies need better abilities so they actually get used and deleted to balance supply.

Probably most people will be like.. TLDR!! I understand... haha!

Na, just rollback the loot buffs until there is a functioning sinks. Way too many exalts and divines dropped in maps without the means to consuming them massively in meaningful way.

Chaos has insanely good inflation rate in settlers because of T17, and on top of naturally divine sink with benchcraft, the introduction of recombinator helping to keep divine inflation rate in-check.

PoE 2 has identity crisis, have all the jankiness and annoyance of PoE 1 but none of its solution. It tries to be a new game but in the end still copying its predecessor. Seriously, why differentiate both games when in the end, PoE 2 is just PoE 1 with added dodge roll and upgraded visuals....

This whole logic is backwards. If you want divines to be cheaper you need to give more sinks to exalts. Right now their usage is completely overshadowed by their drop rate causing the hyperinflation we see now.

Allowing for regal/exalts to be used on more things would just be the start. Djinns, Ultimatums, flasks, charms, precursor tablets.
Maybe even coming up with a system to let currencies be used on skill gems - balancing hell, I know, but maybe a limited list of affixes like ailment duration, application change, mana cost, etc would make it less of a balancing issue.

I don't think there's a person out there that is upset that a piece of gear is only worth 1 div instead of 3. Who exactly is asking for gear to be more expensive?

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MSMagu#0469 wrote:

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Zamolxes7#5151 wrote:

Can someone please explain why Divines losing value means price goes up? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Exalts losing value and inflating makes sense, each exalt is worth less now and Divines being rare means they continue to go up in price and cost more exalts as time progresses.

Gear costing more divines as the league progresses is another problem, caused by fewer people playing and farming items for trade and a small subset of efficient players farming a lot of divine orb currency.

However the exalts being worthless is really what's causing this in my opinion.

I think GGG need to fix this in the long term somehow otherwise as per usual POE fashion within a month-ish the league is dead and everyone goes back to another game until the economy resets. Not great!

I drop one divine my build sucks, but I could get it, I trade it(never use because why use this?) this make the next person do exactly the same think, if I could upgrade the tier or my weapons I would think a little about using it, but why use it otherwise?

what does this make is no one is using Divines, since no one uses the few that drop are traded the trade since there is more and more divines gear get more and more expensive since the quantity of divine just kept getting higher and higher...

to understand is the same as a government printing money, more money means things have less value.

Okay this is the part that confuses me, I only took a few economics classes are university but in the real world this is COMPLETELY backwards.

If Divines HAD another sink, there would be fewer divines, and the cost of divines would go UP. If divines have NO sink, and people keep trading divines, there are MORE and MORE divines over time and the value of divines would DROP.

We would see the value of divines dropping for example if an item that cost 10 divines a month ago costs 100 divines now.

However that is NOT what we are debating here, we are debating WHY it costs 200 Exalts to buy a divine today, when it cost 120 1-2 weeks ago! The answer for that using basic laws of supply and demand, is that the number of EXALTS in the economy is DRASTICALLY increasing, while the number of Divines may be increasing at a much slower rate. This makes the relationship between Exalts and Divines in such a way that Divines are starting to be worth a lot more than exalts.

What you guys really mean to say, is that we need an EXALT sink, or we need to increase the drop rate of divines, it would equalise the relationship between the two and bring down the price of divines to about 100 exalts.