SOLUTION for the hyperinflated Divine Orb issue and Rarity of Items Issue

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

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Cornholio777#1511 wrote:

Basically, the game is a bank which prints money (Currency) but the money that is created is not being used as intended by developers.
Currencies needs to be used and deleted to keep a good balance in the market, but at the moment Divine Orbs are not being deleted enough.

i dont know why people open up solution threads for problems if they dont even understand the basics of the problem.

divine's are not expensive because of no sinks, and more sinks for them would increase their value even more. your solution would make it even worse. if something is rare and the demand high, the item is expensive. if the demand is higher the item is more expensive. i dont know whats so hard to understand here.

This is what confuses me, people keep saying there are too many divines and the price of them in exalts is going up. I think most people do not understand inflation at all. As you said, if there were fewer divines they would probably be worth 300-400 exalts each, making the problem even worse.

Is it time to have an economics 101 class for the POE community? What a weird thread!

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Zamolxes7#5151 wrote:

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MSMagu#0469 wrote:

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Zamolxes7#5151 wrote:

Can someone please explain why Divines losing value means price goes up? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Exalts losing value and inflating makes sense, each exalt is worth less now and Divines being rare means they continue to go up in price and cost more exalts as time progresses.

Gear costing more divines as the league progresses is another problem, caused by fewer people playing and farming items for trade and a small subset of efficient players farming a lot of divine orb currency.

However the exalts being worthless is really what's causing this in my opinion.

I think GGG need to fix this in the long term somehow otherwise as per usual POE fashion within a month-ish the league is dead and everyone goes back to another game until the economy resets. Not great!

I drop one divine my build sucks, but I could get it, I trade it(never use because why use this?) this make the next person do exactly the same think, if I could upgrade the tier or my weapons I would think a little about using it, but why use it otherwise?

what does this make is no one is using Divines, since no one uses the few that drop are traded the trade since there is more and more divines gear get more and more expensive since the quantity of divine just kept getting higher and higher...

to understand is the same as a government printing money, more money means things have less value.

Okay this is the part that confuses me, I only took a few economics classes are university but in the real world this is COMPLETELY backwards.

If Divines HAD another sink, there would be fewer divines, and the cost of divines would go UP. If divines have NO sink, and people keep trading divines, there are MORE and MORE divines over time and the value of divines would DROP.

We would see the value of divines dropping for example if an item that cost 10 divines a month ago costs 100 divines now.

However that is NOT what we are debating here, we are debating WHY it costs 200 Exalts to buy a divine today, when it cost 120 1-2 weeks ago! The answer for that using basic laws of supply and demand, is that the number of EXALTS in the economy is DRASTICALLY increasing, while the number of Divines may be increasing at a much slower rate. This makes the relationship between Exalts and Divines in such a way that Divines are starting to be worth a lot more than exalts.

What you guys really mean to say, is that we need an EXALT sink, or we need to increase the drop rate of divines, it would equalise the relationship between the two and bring down the price of divines to about 100 exalts.

But this is happening, the best bow I was wanting to buy I paid 10 exalt, now it cost 1 divine, I paid 1 divine on my bow now it cost 10 divine a worse bow, exalts already has a huge sink, waystones and see it fht gear is worth to gamble, but why aren't people using? this is another debate why people aren't juicing their map or taking their chance in using exalt on gears, but the sink is there.

But divines there is no sink, you are having it backwards, EXALTS HAVE A SINK, drop 1 million of exalts, half of them are used, the other 500k is traded or used later, divines NO ONE IS USING, what this creates? they lose value, if divines lose value if you did economy as you said what would happen? with less exalt I could buy one divine, this is the simple economy, don't lie you did something you didn't do, if 1 million divines drop if 100 are used in items you are lucky, I should use a divine in this item or buy a better version for this same divine? you know the answer already.

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Zamolxes7#5151 wrote:

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

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Cornholio777#1511 wrote:

Basically, the game is a bank which prints money (Currency) but the money that is created is not being used as intended by developers.
Currencies needs to be used and deleted to keep a good balance in the market, but at the moment Divine Orbs are not being deleted enough.

i dont know why people open up solution threads for problems if they dont even understand the basics of the problem.

divine's are not expensive because of no sinks, and more sinks for them would increase their value even more. your solution would make it even worse. if something is rare and the demand high, the item is expensive. if the demand is higher the item is more expensive. i dont know whats so hard to understand here.

This is what confuses me, people keep saying there are too many divines and the price of them in exalts is going up. I think most people do not understand inflation at all. As you said, if there were fewer divines they would probably be worth 300-400 exalts each, making the problem even worse.

Is it time to have an economics 101 class for the POE community? What a weird thread!

To be fair, the original thread was about the value of items skyrocketing in the number of divines expected.

You see a lot of top tier rares go from 100d to over 200d in the past few weeks.

There are two problems with divines right now, they are far too rare compared to exalts creating the current ex:d ratio AND high end items are going up in divine prices.


So it's possible that divines are both too rare and too rarely used creating the situation where their value skyrockets compared to the fairly common exalts, but drops compared to top tier gear.

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Mordgier#6997 wrote:

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Zamolxes7#5151 wrote:

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

i dont know why people open up solution threads for problems if they dont even understand the basics of the problem.

divine's are not expensive because of no sinks, and more sinks for them would increase their value even more. your solution would make it even worse. if something is rare and the demand high, the item is expensive. if the demand is higher the item is more expensive. i dont know whats so hard to understand here.

This is what confuses me, people keep saying there are too many divines and the price of them in exalts is going up. I think most people do not understand inflation at all. As you said, if there were fewer divines they would probably be worth 300-400 exalts each, making the problem even worse.

Is it time to have an economics 101 class for the POE community? What a weird thread!

To be fair, the original thread was about the value of items skyrocketing in the number of divines expected.

You see a lot of top tier rares go from 100d to over 200d in the past few weeks.

There are two problems with divines right now, they are far too rare compared to exalts creating the current ex:d ratio AND high end items are going up in divine prices.


So it's possible that divines are both too rare and too rarely used creating the situation where their value skyrockets compared to the fairly common exalts, but drops compared to top tier gear.

This! ^^^^ You understand the issue completely, nice reply.
A lot of people in this thread don't understand the chain of values reacting to each other. But you explain it very well here. Thanks :D

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Mordgier#6997 wrote:

So it's possible that divines are both too rare and too rarely used creating the situation where their value skyrockets compared to the fairly common exalts, but drops compared to top tier gear.

for sure if they would be used more, they would have less value. wait, what? makes no sense buddy

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

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Mordgier#6997 wrote:

So it's possible that divines are both too rare and too rarely used creating the situation where their value skyrockets compared to the fairly common exalts, but drops compared to top tier gear.

for sure if they would be used more, they would have less value. wait, what? makes no sense buddy

Reading is hard. They are both too rare and thus too rarely used and as a result hoarded like some PoE stable coin.

How many divines have you slammed into gear?

How about exalts?

You use exalts by the dozen daily because they are trivial to get and thus slamming them on gear is common.

If you find a divine, you don't go "Hey let me slam it on that Vector and see what happens".

Instead you hoard them. So they are both rare and NOT used - but hoarded.

This creates the funky situation where the value of divines compared to exalts continues to drift and also the number of divines in the economy continues to increase since they are not actually used much.

This is why top tier gear continues to go up in price in terms of divines, as end game farmers have more divines now that they had time to farm them. At the same time those entering the end game who are finding tons of exalts are left behind as they are no longer able to convert those exalts to divines at a reasonable rate and are cut off from buying top tier gear through farming exalts - they depend on finding gear they can sell for divines or finding raw divines neither of which is reliable or predictable farming method.

exalts are used far less because crafting sucks atm. divines are used on uniques mostly. the balance isnt right there and we need more exalt sinks.
but saying with more divine usage the value would be lower is just wrong.

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

exalts are used far less because crafting sucks atm. divines are used on uniques mostly. the balance isnt right there and we need more exalt sinks.
but saying with more divine usage the value would be lower is just wrong.

I specifically said the price of GEAR in divines would be lower.

Because players using divines would mean there are fewer sitting around in stashes.

I have ZERO use for my divines except to hoard them until I see an upgrade - which at this stage is going to cost me 50d+.

I throw exalts on maps and dropped gear regularly to see if maybe something good will come of it - because the exalt to me has no real value.

Maybe im wrong but from my point of view it seems as if 2 things are the absolute biggest culprints when it comes to inflation.

The first thing is Droprates:
- the problem is - beeing high level with good gear and maps doesnt only give you better gear - which is perfectly fine - it also gives you ridiculous ammounts of loot and standard gear/currency

The issue with this is - this devaluetes currency and items so fast that most ppl will just be left behind in this economy - which probably also explains why goldsellers are becomming more and more of an issue since people seem to compensate by doign the absolutely worst thing possible.


Also Goldsellers can also use these mechanics to farm absurd ammounts of loot compared to normal players.


The second thing is Divines:
- i think one of the main issues is that Divines dont have anye use that stands in relation to their droprate and worth - therefore they have become a currency 99% of the time and one of the few items that actually not only keep but also increase their worth

I think this is also bad for the game since it makes inflation even worse.


It is really alarming looking at how fast the price is rising - and it seems to be getting faster and faster.


I would propose a few changes:

Divines
- add some use for Divines in mapping - good enough for ppl thinking about using them
- or maybe even do something like - undo corruption block for 10 divine (keep stats but another try) with some sort of limit - like 1-3 times at max per item and max stats

-and maybe also extra uses for exalts to reduce their number - but if droprates werent so extreme at the end that probably wouldnt be needed (endgame should drop great loot - not millions of orb-currencies)


Droprates
- increase the Droprate in campaign until Level 60 - this will improve gameplay fun and reward while not impacting endgame market

- decrease the difference in droprate between best and worst so that they arent so extreme that ppl are left behind instantly

- maybe add some endgame-use for items mainly dropped in lower level areas - or make them a good income for gold so ppl also have some sort of chance to not get completely obliterated when they join the endgame-market (for example make some of the low level currency or even shards drop more in low level areas and increase the gold you get for them from the merchant etc.)

May i add - i think the best time to mess and play arround with balancing this is now.