Delete Mirror from the game

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AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

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PoWeRofGreeD#7404 wrote:

Free, where those 1308 divine goes? Those divines still in economy, not removed.

We definitely don't have a problem with Divine being worthless, do we? It is exalt, isn't it?

Man, honestly. This is over both of our heads. We are both dunning kruegers in this situation, fixing inflation is a complicated issue. There are other games that exist too you know, and they don't have mirrors. But they also have inflation.

So it is just a problem that happens in player driven economy games, that we have to accept. Is that fair or no?

WoW gold value not even close to currency farm in PoE2. In wow frash server gold has a cost for a atleast a year

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bestsss#7863 wrote:

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AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

So it is just a problem that happens in player driven economy games, that we have to accept. Is that fair or no?

The inflation is a quite solvable issue on its own. The trade where you pay gold is a form of tax but a very minor, trivial one. Slap a proper 25-30% tax of whatever is sold, goes back to the game provider (+gold for good measure).

The exchange rate is available so selling for 1 divine takes 60 exalts (by current rates) or so from the seller. Make reselling way harder too - personally I'd prevent direct resale w/o any modification of the item - e.g. snatch a cheap normal heavy belt unless you do something with, e.g. make it magic or attempt an orb of chance, it cannot be sold - bound to account similar to tamed beast gems.

An auction house like system where the "game" takes currency is just a lazier way to sink than the ways we currently have. If you go look at the games with similar systems as what you are saying, they still have issues with inflation.

Account bound items are lame. PoE is cool because it feels like the things you find are actual things. Besides gold, everything has uses beyond just buying power.

Besides, again, completely different system, and if you look at those games, usually they don't do these things for their player or economy. They do it so they can then sell items progressively to the player themselves. Which is boring at the best, and predatory monetization at the worst.

I do not know why people consistently come in from MMO backgrounds and say stuff like this. Even in your own MMOs with all these account bound items, you can see the effects of inflation run rampant. It's just not it. No idea why you would want GGG to replicate something like it in PoE, other than it's just familiar.

But there is no auction as in having bid/ask, similar to the currency exchange which is excellent being able to place yourself on each side of the market, along with the ability to see the depth of the market (again on both sides).

This is a tax - real world currencies work b/c everyone has to use the currency to pay tax back to the state. And most states have different forms of direct and indirect taxes. Currency only has value when it can change hands (exchanged for goods/services) -- else there is inflation, or built-in deflation if you consider bitcoin alike.

In this game the currency is always produced without any downsides at all with an extreme minim investment needed, too. So taking away currency for provided services like trade makes a lot of sense to me.

Edit: I meant account bound ONLY after buying with intend to immediately resale, e.g if you a buy of exceptional boots and improve them - speed/resistances/even quality - you can sale that again.

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bestsss#7863 wrote:

This is a tax - .

Which is what a traditional auction house in an MMO would also call it, and again, still the same problems. Just a different term.

No.

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AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

Which is what a traditional auction house in an MMO would also call it, and again, still the same problems. Just a different term.

I have two MMOs in mind that didn't have the inflation issue - ESO and Throne&Liberty; the latter doesn't count much as the only way to introduce currency is buying it (or someone else) with real money.

Both have massive taxes - ESO a direct tax (incl. for just listing an item) + an exorbitant fee to hire a trader (which is weekly, it's a hidden bid system). Throne&Liberty has a 20% + 1(usually) to whoever owns the castle) of everything sold - no direct trade between players.

In this game and classic MMO where the currency is produced by the players rather than the state (as in real life - print money), the only way to combat inflation is forcibly remove the said currency by offering a service that takes it.

If the inflation alone was an issue the publisher considers an important one, it'd be dealt with.

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PoWeRofGreeD#7404 wrote:

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YNRY#3842 wrote:

What is free? If you mirror an item, typically you 1) have to have a mirror (not free), and 2) have to pay a fee (200 divines, for example).

Exactly, mirror removing from economy - doesnt effect casual players, 200 divines still in economy - does effect casual players.

Ok. So what exactly are you trying to say? Is there an issue you're trying to bring up? If so, what? And can you actually provide any numbers, from said economy, that proves anything?-or are we strictly in theory land?

Also remember that people crafting mirror items are spending thousands of divines to craft them.

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bestsss#7863 wrote:

I have two MMOs in mind that didn't have the inflation issue - ESO and Throne&Liberty;

Aren't both of these systems P2W? As in, most of the time, people overcome these "taxes" by just spending more real money on the opportunity to get more in game? And the developers actively integrate & encourage it, which is probably why they bother to make it semi-impossible to earn?

These are not healthy systems by any means. These are examples of awful predatory monetization ruining otherwise decent games.

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AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

if you look at those games, usually they don't do these things for their player or economy. They do it so they can then sell items progressively to the player themselves. Which is boring at the best, and predatory monetization at the worst.

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AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

Aren't both of these systems P2W?

in ESO you can't really have P2W in a traditional sense. Another spending part with ESO was housing but still trader fees were the big one. Also dungeon and trial gear cannot be 'bought' directly off the market (trial gear not useful for pvp, though). Personally I'd never consider ESO pay to win any regard.

For Throne and Liberty it used to be few thousands of euro for some of the world boss loot (then few hundreds), even thought it took few days before one could use bought currency with real money.

Still the amount of currency in circulation didn't not just increase - in contrast to PoE2.

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bestsss#7863 wrote:

in ESO you can't really have P2W in a traditional sense.

Can't really. In a traditional sense. Yeah, I have heard the ESO players that compete for the leaderboards spend insane amounts. In game. In the in game shop. A thing that was put in the game by the developers. So I guess they are not really spending their money in a traditional sense, but somehow managing to gain a massive advantage doing so by the developer's design regardless.

It's cool if you enjoy these games man.. but these are not systems you want to emulate. Unless your end-goal is money at the expense of your morals and your players' enjoyment.