Delete Mirror from the game

"

AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

"

bestsss#7863 wrote:

in ESO you can't really have P2W in a traditional sense.

Can't really. In a traditional sense. Yeah, I have heard the ESO players that compete for the leaderboards spend insane amounts. In game. In the in game shop. A thing that was put in the game by the developers. So I guess they are not really spending their money in a traditional sense, but somehow managing to gain a massive advantage doing so by the developer's design regardless.

There is really nothing one can buy off Microsoft, Zenimax to improve that (sure can have the crafting bag and such that's convenience for the subscription). Also it used to take months (like 9 or so) to level up all crafting, I think it was possible later to buy some speed up of few days a month or so.
I'd not consider access to DLCs with whatever loot in the dungeons, etc. a pay to win at all.

So I call that part quite ignorant.

"

bestsss#7863 wrote:

"

AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

"

bestsss#7863 wrote:

in ESO you can't really have P2W in a traditional sense.

Can't really. In a traditional sense. Yeah, I have heard the ESO players that compete for the leaderboards spend insane amounts. In game. In the in game shop. A thing that was put in the game by the developers. So I guess they are not really spending their money in a traditional sense, but somehow managing to gain a massive advantage doing so by the developer's design regardless.

There is really nothing one can buy off Microsoft, Zenimax to improve that (sure can have the crafting bag and such that's convenience for the subscription). Also it used to take months (like 9 or so) to level up all crafting, I think it was possible later to buy some speed up of few days a month or so.
I'd not consider access to DLCs with whatever loot in the dungeons, etc. a pay to win at all.

So I call that part quite ignorant.

It's cool if you like those games man. They are good games. Those trade systems are just not good systems. The reason it "fixes inflation" is because no one can afford anything without a boost and you can't actually find much to grow your wealth. The devs pace your wealth, and you increase that pace with magic crystals that you either earn 1/100 per hour or buy 100 for $10.

The games are cool, the systems are not something you should be pointing at as examples of healthy player driven trade markets.

I agree with this post and those claiming "Just learn how to craft mirror tier items", sure.

I'll assume you did.
Do it again. Craft the same mirror tier item twice, thrice.
Right now, you can craft it once and have a way to produce currency without any labour involved, without spending any currency yourself. Crafting mirror tier items should be absolutely a thing, keeping them with you indefinitely at no cost should not.
It's like rent, it isn't something that should exist in any healthy economy but it does because things have been built around this existing, people need to do it to guarantee any form of stability in their late life, etc. etc. etc. But it is still a parasitic behaviour that just harms the economy with no actual labour involved.

If you did it once, you can do it again. So do it. Mirror crafters should be the biggest currency sink in the economy, but as they are now, they actually hinder liquidity.

Making mirrors add a mirrored tag to the original item is also a way to remove mirrors from the economy, but it is a bit less effective in terms of liquidity. The fact is that mirrors generate ghost value as the newly generated item actually does not have any associated material costs in exalts, divines, omens, fractures, etc. If mirrors consumed a huge amount of currency (beyond the mirror itself) per use, mirror taxes would make sense - but they don't.

The fact is that every mirror use injects the value of the expense of thousands of currencies into the economy without expending them. This leads to currency accumulating at a faster and faster rate into few players' stashes - and i am not accounting for RMT here. Even in an ideal scenario, this is bad for the economy as it harms competitivity.

Having a higher liquidity translates, up to a point, into lower inflation. As the economy progresses, as it stands right now, the associated costs involved into crafting mirror-tier items grow too, we should combat this. Allowing mirror of kalandra to exist as it does now only makes the problem worse for everyone, including people who enjoy crafting multiple mirror tier items as their next craft, even using the same amount of currency, will actually cost them more. Before, you bought certain omens for 1 divs each. Your next craft will have them costing 5 divs each.
Every game's economy works different and we need to look at the fundamental pieces that lead to such difference. If things are different, this means they can be different. Inflation isn't something that inherently emerges into trade like a metaphysical devil that is fundamental and unavoidable, it emerges as result of fundamental structures that build that economy's dynamics.

POE is right when it makes currencies assets with inherent liquidity due to their uses combined with their respective associated rarity, it is something that, up to a point, is naturally liquidated (stops when you have no reason to craft). How do we scale this? Currently, it does not scale and past a certain point, the associated costs with juicing maps becomes irrelevant when compared to how much you can get out of them. POE does many things right and makes many other mistakes or makes new limitations evident. The limits of crafting and juicing is a limitation and it is hard to fine-tune Reward/Cost/Variance/Satisfaction. The way mirror of Kalandra works both in POE1 and POE2 is a mistake.

"

GODOFWARSANCHEZ#4574 wrote:

Make crafting great again, you made exalts common, now make those omens crafting more commong (at least on the level of divine +-) and remove mirroring "perfect" items, as it kind of destroys the replayability of crafting and it all ends into grinding currency, and no fun.

It also makes everyone run with literally identical items.

Specially for ssf, but also for the core game itself, recombining currency into higher tier currency is a must, it will also be a great currency sink and stabilize the economy, exalted price for instance (and all others) would deinflate hard as it would all go into becoming perfect exalts.
(ps: perfect currency should require 9 total greater currency, this way 1 perfect currency would cost 27 basic currency, if its just 3x3x then it wouldn't be enough, there are wayy to many in the market already).... which would all be consumed into crafting very, very fast, it would be a BEAUTIFUL currency sink.

Divine is more than 450 exalteds now lmao, i guess we just remove exalted from the loot filter?

"

The_Risen#6326 wrote:

"

GODOFWARSANCHEZ#4574 wrote:

Make crafting great again, you made exalts common, now make those omens crafting more commong (at least on the level of divine +-) and remove mirroring "perfect" items, as it kind of destroys the replayability of crafting and it all ends into grinding currency, and no fun.

It also makes everyone run with literally identical items.

Specially for ssf, but also for the core game itself, recombining currency into higher tier currency is a must, it will also be a great currency sink and stabilize the economy, exalted price for instance (and all others) would deinflate hard as it would all go into becoming perfect exalts.
(ps: perfect currency should require 9 total greater currency, this way 1 perfect currency would cost 27 basic currency, if its just 3x3x then it wouldn't be enough, there are wayy to many in the market already).... which would all be consumed into crafting very, very fast, it would be a BEAUTIFUL currency sink.

Divine is more than 450 exalteds now lmao, i guess we just remove exalted from the loot filter?

I thought about this too. But perfect exalts are very strong, which is good.
Due to their limited application, this should be the case for augmentation and transmutation orbs and maybe perfect regals too. But for exalts and perfect chaos orbs, I think the rate of conversion should be steeper due to the associated values of t1 and t2 mods (instead of adding more junk to the affix list like some people suggest).

Or tablets should also allow for more mods and have more tiers so we actually get something to expend our greater exalts/augs/regals on once we get fully geared. There isn't much to do with currency once you're geared. POE1 had a lot of associated costs in scarabs, rerolling maps and chiseling, POE2 currently does not have that and frequently running extremely juiced content is limited to party play currently, as it is not worth the expenses for solo players.

"

But a better solution is to simple remove the trade window. Replacing it with the exchange. No direct trading. No RMT.

This is the way.

Don't show the seller what their item name is on the buyer side. Only show 75% of the items available to any given buyer per x amount of visits. Anything like this to put friction not between the buying and selling of normal player, just between the buying and selling of the RMT users.

Downsides? None from regular non RMT players. For GGG it would really show how much of their income is from the players or bot farms that are abusing their Intellectual Property.