Unpopular opinion : I like the crafting system of PoE2

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Legoury#0138 wrote:

yeah its possible, but I already got a lvl 33 item on T10 map...

And when you drop a T1 map on T15 map, its pretty boring...

Are you sure it wasn't requirement level?
It seems unlikely that T10 level 33 items would drop :o

On the other hand, T1 maps that drop to T15 are a pain, hence the great debate about the filter above.
Personally, I hide all maps below T7 (and I'll probably soon hide everything outside T14/T15, I'm on my fourth quad tab of maps haha).

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Kaewis#5884 wrote:

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DemonikPath#1311 wrote:

You're completely wrong. I didn't mean there shouldn't be useless drops. What I meant is that game should be playable without hiding useless drops. Certain content in PoE2 and PoE1 in general are not playable (in fact PoE1 is literally not playable because the amount of loot that drops crashes game without filter).

Oh, so you're just talking about a technical aspect?

What you're trying to say, basically, is that the game should be able to run properly even with all the trash items displayed?

(If that's not what you mean, I admit I'm lost in your answers).

We went too far offtopic but no, I didn't mean technical aspect. I mean that amount of loot should be small enough so that you can find valuable items at a glance without filter. There should never be a situation where loot either covers your entire screen making it impossible to play without turning off loot display or even have enough loot on the screen that it's impossible to find anything valuable without loot filter. This is the case for most of the campaign but not in the endgame. Loot system fails because too much loot drops. It's even worse in breach because it completely covers screen with loot, it becomes impossible to even pick up loot with WASD. My point is that your gameplay shouldn't change if you have loot filter or not - single glance at the screen should be enough to find valuable loot, loot filter should be QoL, not a mandatory thing. Loot should be balanced as if loot filters don't exist at all.

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DemonikPath#1311 wrote:

We went too far offtopic but no, I didn't mean technical aspect. I mean that amount of loot should be small enough so that you can find valuable items at a glance without filter. There should never be a situation where loot either covers your entire screen making it impossible to play without turning off loot display or even have enough loot on the screen that it's impossible to find anything valuable without loot filter. This is the case for most of the campaign but not in the endgame. Loot system fails because too much loot drops. It's even worse in breach because it completely covers screen with loot, it becomes impossible to even pick up loot with WASD. My point is that your gameplay shouldn't change if you have loot filter or not - single glance at the screen should be enough to find valuable loot, loot filter should be QoL, not a mandatory thing. Loot should be balanced as if loot filters don't exist at all.

Indeed, we're going a bit far off topic.

I understand better what you mean.
I'm personally in favor of a system where every item dropped is already identified (with a lootfilter integrated into the game, like Last Epoch, it would make the experience very pleasant to be able to quickly identify what we're interested in or not), however GGG has already expressed himself on the subject by saying that “identification” was part of the excitement of loot (I rather disagree with this bias but so be it).

In my opinion, the game won't be able to escape the lootfilter.

So much the worse/so much the better, I guess.

While many in this thread like the PoE2 crafting system I come from a different environment and have a different P.o.V. on the issue.

To me I want a crafting system that provides various tools where you can thoughtfully improve items you find OR craft something specific for a build that you'll "never realistically" find on the ground.


Currently I view the crafting system as having 2.5 levels to it:

1. Pure RNG -- Little to no thought. Trans, Aug, Regal, Ex slam. Pure RNG simulator and the time invested -- to me -- isn't worth the results realized in game.

1a. Slightly more thoughtful RNG -- Chaos, Annuls, Essences, etc. -- If you can opportunistically start with a decent item there's an RNG change you could turn the item into something much better. While not particularly thoughtful this is the closest 99% of the players will get.

... a huge gulf where it's unreasonable to use crafting tools outside of SSF ...

2. Mirror-tier crafting where you're almost literally trying to get a [near] perfect piece of equipment.



What's missing is the massive gap between the slightly thoughtful uses of tier 1a crafting mechanics to mirror tier crafts. IMHO the gap is too large and some room for thoughtful crafting needs to be able to fill in gear in the gaps between those two styles of crafting.


There's also the time vs. reward spectrum. Outside of mirror tier crafting the odds of a body armor dropping on a really good base having mods that would be a clear improvement on what I have now [if Craft of Exile 2 is right] is roughly 1 out of 24,000,000. Honestly I don't want to search through 2400 drops let alone 24 MILLION drops before I find something that could be an improvement.

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TL/DR : I want better gear much more quickly than I would ever get via crafting gear myself using pure RNG methods. The Time & Effort vs. Reward equation is completely off from my point of view.

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KingAlamar#4071 wrote:

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1a. Slightly more thoughtful RNG -- Chaos, Annuls, Essences, etc. -- If you can opportunistically start with a decent item there's an RNG change you could turn the item into something much better. While not particularly thoughtful this is the closest 99% of the players will get.

... a huge gulf where it's unreasonable to use crafting tools outside of SSF ...

2. Mirror-tier crafting where you're almost literally trying to get a [near] perfect piece of equipment.



What's missing is the massive gap between the slightly thoughtful uses of tier 1a crafting mechanics to mirror tier crafts. IMHO the gap is too large and some room for thoughtful crafting needs to be able to fill in gear in the gaps between those two styles of crafting.

For me the gap between 1a and 2 is totally logical. Mirror item as you said, means end of the game. I mean litteraly end of game cause if you have perfect items, whats the purpose of such game ?? (ofc with perfect item, you are able to kill all bosses of the game).
So I understand your point of view, but for me, mirror tier item is not already present in the game. I mean there are, but its almost impossible to have it. And always, cause its an EA game, we already know GGG didnt implement all the content in the game.

But yeah, I totally understand what you said and I agree with you about the fact we need more craft tools to improve our stuff into perfect or almost perfect gear. And we dont have right now this kind of tool. But again, as I said, the crafting system of PoE is a good base for me, but it still need improvements with next content...

I'm not sure if OP values there time at all but the community consensus seems to be hate for the current implementation. A pure casino RNG is not crafting. I don't want things to be entirely deterministic, I doubt many do but the current state is absolutely unacceptable and a waste of anyone's time.

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Jawsome#8813 wrote:

I'm not sure if OP values there time at all but the community consensus seems to be hate for the current implementation. A pure casino RNG is not crafting. I don't want things to be entirely deterministic, I doubt many do but the current state is absolutely unacceptable and a waste of anyone's time.

this has absolutely nothing to do with time taken/wasted. you can have some deterministic craft that requires you to play the game the same or greater amount of time to get the result you are after statistically and it will feel better. This 'muh time, don't waste it' is such a misleading take it starting to piss me off as its present in each complaint. Its a fucking game if you playing it make you feel you wasting time this is entirely on you.

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Legoury#0138 wrote:

For me the gap between 1a and 2 is totally logical. Mirror item as you said, means end of the game. I mean litteraly end of game cause if you have perfect items, whats the purpose of such game ?? (ofc with perfect item, you are able to kill all bosses of the game).
So I understand your point of view, but for me, mirror tier item is not already present in the game. I mean there are, but its almost impossible to have it. And always, cause its an EA game, we already know GGG didnt implement all the content in the game.

But yeah, I totally understand what you said and I agree with you about the fact we need more craft tools to improve our stuff into perfect or almost perfect gear. And we dont have right now this kind of tool. But again, as I said, the crafting system of PoE is a good base for me, but it still need improvements with next content...

I was going to "fight you" about the first sentence of your reply HOWEVER after reading the rest of your reply we're closer than what I thought.


As for mirror-tier items I've never owned one but that's OK as the combination of perfect base, perfect mods, and [near] perfect rolls should be pretty darned special. I'm happy with those items being special and only really seeing them on the 1% [0.1%??]

At league-start I do like finding a useable base, ID, Trans, Aug, EX, etc. or just finding some gear that's better than what I have. I'm down with that.

With the current crafting model, eventually, you should be able to get items with 3 or 4 pretty decent mods on them. It may take work but it should be doable.


If we had tools that could take us from decent 4 mod items to decent-enough 5-6 mod items I think we'd be in a good place.

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

this has absolutely nothing to do with time taken/wasted. you can have some deterministic craft that requires you to play the game the same or greater amount of time to get the result you are after statistically and it will feel better. This 'muh time, don't waste it' is such a misleading take it starting to piss me off as its present in each complaint. Its a fucking game if you playing it make you feel you wasting time this is entirely on you.

I'd have a hard time disagreeing more with your take. IMHO an action RPG should give a reasonably smooth progression until "early endgame" whether that be through drops you find, trade, crafting, or some other method.

When the game doesn't give the players tools that can help smooth out the valleys of RNG then that is a perfectly legit criticism of the game.

If you don't like that then I'm sure there are plenty of other forum threads you could spend your time on. That's entirely up to you.

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KingAlamar#4071 wrote:

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

this has absolutely nothing to do with time taken/wasted. you can have some deterministic craft that requires you to play the game the same or greater amount of time to get the result you are after statistically and it will feel better. This 'muh time, don't waste it' is such a misleading take it starting to piss me off as its present in each complaint. Its a fucking game if you playing it make you feel you wasting time this is entirely on you.

I'd have a hard time disagreeing more with your take. IMHO an action RPG should give a reasonably smooth progression until "early endgame" whether that be through drops you find, trade, crafting, or some other method.

When the game doesn't give the players tools that can help smooth out the valleys of RNG then that is a perfectly legit criticism of the game.

If you don't like that then I'm sure there are plenty of other forum threads you could spend your time on. That's entirely up to you.

again you missing the point because what is lacking is the feeling of progress, whihc has nothing to do with time investment, which is my argument. also this thread is more suitable for me than it is for you- read the OP, then read the name of the forum section