Remove -10% from game

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AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

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Celd#2630 wrote:

I thought that I would like it when they removed the experience penalty from the Pinnacle bosses, but I just lost all interest of playing good in them because dying felt inconsequential.

I do think they should revisit this now that the uber variant uses different fragments, and there is probably less new players complaining about it.

I liked the risk. Having your fragments on the line for one life made it more exciting.

But it was still good to allow us to learn the boss mechanics on the first tries. But I think that was a problem with a certain boss abilities oneshotting (looking at you Arbiter of Ash, and your beam + stay in the circle combo shit! :D)

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Celd#2630 wrote:

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AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

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Celd#2630 wrote:

I thought that I would like it when they removed the experience penalty from the Pinnacle bosses, but I just lost all interest of playing good in them because dying felt inconsequential.

I do think they should revisit this now that the uber variant uses different fragments, and there is probably less new players complaining about it.

I liked the risk. Having your fragments on the line for one life made it more exciting.

But it was still good to allow us to learn the boss mechanics on the first tries. But I think that was a problem with a certain boss abilities oneshotting (looking at you Arbiter of Ash, and your beam + stay in the circle combo shit! :D)

Maybe they could do something like Last Epoch, you get infinite tries but if you fail it once on those fragments the boss doesn't drop anything from his unique pool

With all those juicy nodes on the tree, we can speculate on two scenarios.

Either players will be able to avoid death with the new defenses, which make hitting 100 easier than before.

Or the players will still die, and this needs to be removed.


Now, let's compare that to the bright and good side that when you enter the boss room,s you usually die and lose the exp. Since they removed losing exp when doing bosses, I don't think hitting level 100 should be that hard unless the players juice their maps in a way where they are asking for death.

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AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

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Celd#2630 wrote:

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AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

I do think they should revisit this now that the uber variant uses different fragments, and there is probably less new players complaining about it.

I liked the risk. Having your fragments on the line for one life made it more exciting.

But it was still good to allow us to learn the boss mechanics on the first tries. But I think that was a problem with a certain boss abilities oneshotting (looking at you Arbiter of Ash, and your beam + stay in the circle combo shit! :D)

Maybe they could do something like Last Epoch, you get infinite tries but if you fail it once on those fragments the boss doesn't drop anything from his unique pool

Putting it strictly like that it eats motivation, since there is less of a reason to continue the fight. But yeah, I'm open for alternatives, GGG has been quite good at this kind of stuff, when they are not afraid of the backlash from the community.

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Celd#2630 wrote:

Nah no thanks. If GGG did that I would have to resort to playing HC for having consequences of dying, and I don't have that kind of time or survival skills. :D It would be braindead operation to me, if every character is promised to reach level 100, with no impact of choices for the achievements.

No impact, except losing - your juiced waystone, your tower influence, any map special event (such as wisps for example), whatever loot you weren't able to pick up, and time spent to get to the next map node.

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Celd#2630 wrote:

I thought that I would like it when they removed the experience penalty from the Pinnacle bosses, but I just lost all interest of playing good in them because dying felt inconsequential.

For Arbiter you lose your keys & have to go find then beat three citadels to try again. Thats a huge, time consuming consequence. All of the pinnacles bosses have consequence & cost for dying, even without XP loss.

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

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Celd#2630 wrote:

Nah no thanks. If GGG did that I would have to resort to playing HC for having consequences of dying, and I don't have that kind of time or survival skills. :D It would be braindead operation to me, if every character is promised to reach level 100, with no impact of choices for the achievements.

No impact, except losing - your juiced waystone, your tower influence, any map special event (such as wisps for example), whatever loot you weren't able to pick up, and time spent to get to the next map node.

It is inconsequetial because you already got a second waystone in the machine immediately. :)

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

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Celd#2630 wrote:

I thought that I would like it when they removed the experience penalty from the Pinnacle bosses, but I just lost all interest of playing good in them because dying felt inconsequential.

For Arbiter you lose your keys & have to go find then beat three citadels to try again. Thats a huge, time consuming consequence. All of the pinnacles bosses have consequence & cost for dying, even without XP loss.

That's for plebs who can't win in the 6 portal timeframe. My situation is different. If the fight was too difficult to win I would be say it. :D

I'm not expecting every build to beat the Uber Pinnacle bosses with the 1 portal.

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Celd#2630 wrote:

It is inconsequetial because you already got a second waystone in the machine immediately. :)

Waystone mods are randomly generated, and don't all have the same rarity/quantity boost :)

And again, there's a time cost for trying to get to the next node, especially if you're trying to get a specific tower setup.

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Celd#2630 wrote:

That's for plebs who can't win in the 6 portal timeframe. My situation is different. If the fight was too difficult to win I would be say it. :D

6 portal bosses aren't actually "pinnacle" though, are they? :D

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Celd#2630 wrote:

I'm not expecting every build to beat the Uber Pinnacle bosses with the 1 portal.

Agreed, which is why its disingenuous to suggest that XP loss is the only thing that makes pinnacle fights consequential.

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

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Celd#2630 wrote:

That's for plebs who can't win in the 6 portal timeframe. My situation is different. If the fight was too difficult to win I would be say it. :D

6 portal bosses aren't actually "pinnacle" though, are they? :D

It's a mix and match between poe 1 and 2 mechanics, where poe 2 reduced the number of portals for the pinnacle boss difficulty setting, but I'm still talking as if it was all one system at times. :D

But yes, kinda. The infinite retries the first Arbiter of Ash fight gave did not feel like a pinnacle fight, but more like a grind.

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Celd#2630 wrote:

The infinite retries the first Arbiter of Ash fight gave did not feel like a pinnacle fight, but more like a grind.

I'm curious, did you ever attempt T4 pinnacle bosses? If you stayed on T0 and never tried any higher, it makes a little more sense to me why you think dying in those fights is totally inconsequential.

We had this discussion million times.
There was one valid conclusion from the ones i participated in:

The only way that's acceptable for both sides, would be to make you choose whether you want to loose XP on death or not - and give some sort of reward to these whom reached level 100 with XP Loss on.
Also, these would need to be within same trade economy, as splitting the playerbase more is just a bad idea.

Potential reward for XP Loosing chars on level 100 could be a cosmetic, so it's not power determinant. But it needs to be something, Anything - a Stash Tab, a Cap with a fan on top of it... you got the point.

That's the only way you convince me for it.
Otherwise I am supporting XP loss with my whole existence.
Why?
Cause it feels good when you need to overcome the stream of XP rolling backwards and you succeed.
It is a Git Gud mechanic which gates fishing for a lucky run.
It is a system thatdoesnt let you just wait for the level to ding, you actually need to overcome it.