POE2 disrespecting our time (Post-0.4.0)

"

karsey#2995 wrote:

I read the first post and instantly can tell that the next 12 pages are mostly people complaining about loot and how they are mad that they see a video online of groups doing something they can't economically compete with individually and feel like there's no point in participating in the economy, but also feel that ssf is impossible, so there's no hope, and they don't want to play.

All of the content in this game is completely accessible without trading, and you don't need a PhD or to understand esoteric mechanisms to do it either, and if you do it in trade league and want to expedite things and circumvent certain mechanisms, you do not need to spend more than 5-10div, maximum.

The problem stems from the fact that most people don't really play poe, they play a derivative pvp economic meta-game where success is measured by div/hr, which I'm sorry to tell you - means your problems are not going to be solved by GGG.

You won't get your special drop rate league, and you won't ever be able to compete on the same level economically as an individual against a coordinated 6-man party who are all better than you.

Your only hope is to carve out your own fun based on your own goals and capabilities.

You can still do quite well individually in the economy just by playing it seems, because from the sounds of it, you are all too discouraged to play, so it shouldn't be too hard to out-earn most of you just by casually grinding lol.

I know a guy who never farms anything past t10 maps on his couch and does breach over and over and he has like 1000 divs in his stash and he plays some janky homebrewed invoker that manually casts ice nova and uses tempest flurry and would probably have his build laughed out of the room for being unoptimized.

If he can do it, so can you guys. You'd all be better off just focusing on having fun rather than trying to be "mathematically efficient" or whatever.

"

tzaeru#0912 wrote:

This, other that I am not sure if it's really most, but it's still a significant amount of players.

A lot of streamers and other content creators promote this idea that the main thing in PoE should be to maximize your div/hour and to chase those ultra-rare super end game items.

Unfortunately, a lot of people buy into this without understanding that there's a reason why that very end-game stuff is very hard and expensive to get; and then they also fail to see the forest for the trees when they chase the highest possible div/hour, and seem to forget that the actual point of video games is to just have fun while you play, and once you stop having fun, you don't need to continue chasing the numbers, you can play another game or go outside or go to the gym or study something or watch a movie or, ..

It's absolutely true that on trade, you can kit up a build on any weapon and ascendancy with 5-10 divs and successfully do all content the game currently has. And it is absolutely true that there's thousands of SSF players who clear the campaign and the first pinnacle bosses within a few days from league start. Clearly the real issue is not that it was impossible to kit yourself up.

People on this thread essentially demand that other players do the farming for them and then sell them the ultra-rare stuff for less than the cost it was to drop or craft them. It's ridiculous honestly. But I wouldn't as such put the blame on those players - the blame is on a culture around PoE that promotes this mindset that you are a failure of a PoE player if you don't chase high div/hour rates and if your build doesn't have that 100 div weapon.

"

Japonbu#0742 wrote:

"

steven0006#1294 wrote:

+1000 to this group play should not have better rewards than solo play they should be equal. If they want group players to get 100 div a map then solo players should get 100 div a map. Majority of people in POE play solo anyways because of the glaring issues of group play I will not even get into because GGG knows.

Exactly. The current design violates the core RPG rule of "Risk vs. Reward."
Think about it:
• Solo Play: You take 100% of the aggro. You have zero Aura support. If you die, you lose a portal. (High Risk)
• Group Play: You have an Aurabot giving you 90% max res. You have a Cursebot weakening enemies. You can revive each other. (Low Risk)
Logically, High Risk should yield High Reward.
But in PoE, the Low Risk group (playing on "Easy Mode" with supports) gets the massive Loot Multiplier.
It is completely backwards.
"Playing with friends" should be its own reward (fun, safety, speed). You shouldn't need to bribe players with exponential loot to play together.
If anything, Loot Quantity should be split, not multiplied, to compensate for the trivialized difficulty.

"

Valsacar#0268 wrote:

So, we have our answer. Inefficient.

"

Japonbu#0742 wrote:

In Adventure Mode / Maps, the loop is: Enter Map -> Kill Everything -> Next Map. The "Action Density" is exponentially higher. That is the only metric that matters to me.

You might prefer a bullet hell game then, instead of a... ROLE PLAYING GAME.

"

steven0006#1294 wrote:

The simple fix to this would be to remove bonus from group play since its only ever 1 guy killing stuff while everyone else follows to buff the 1 guy. You never go into a map with 6+ people all attacking even on a boss or pinnacle boss its always 1 guy doing everything.

The hard fix would be to up the drop rates for solo players to match that of a full group then they would see nobody would play in groups because there is no 100x multiplier to their loot and it doesnt benefit them to group up no more and you see the real reason why they group is just for the extra loot not for what grouping is for like idk meaningful boss fights like an MMO that they are desperately trying to add in with combos. Grouping to make friends, form clans/guilds, etc.

Instead the only reason and I will say it again in bold the ONLY reason people group in POE1 or POE2 is to benefit from the boost in loot. Take that away 0 people party ever because of many reasons like to name a few:

1. Shared loot people get mad when they are always to slow to get anything and leave group.
2. The collision with other players in the maps causes deaths, stuttering like effects bouncing around cause 1 guy stays under your feet the entire time.
3. The feeling of being left out because by the time you attack everything's dead on screen from that 1 credit card warrior that is all zoom zoom on day 2.
4. The connection between you and the person you are playing with has to be on the same server or else you will experience 200+ ms latency causing everything to just suck to play.

The list goes on but it all points to the same thing that people only group play for the bonus to loot not for any other reason remove that to fix the game imo.

"

Japonbu#0742 wrote:

+1000. You nailed it.
Especially this part: "The ONLY reason people group in PoE is to benefit from the boost in loot."
Let's be honest: The Quantity/Rarity Bonus for groups is not a "Reward"; it is a Bribe.
It is GGG paying players "Compensation" to tolerate the terrible multiplayer mechanics you listed:
• Player Collision (getting stuck on friends).
• Visual Clutter (can't see anything).
• Lag/Latency spikes.
• The feeling of being useless while the carry zooms ahead.
If they removed the loot multiplier today, Group Play would die instantly.
This proves that people aren't grouping for the "Love of friendship"; they are grouping because the math forces them to.
Solo players shouldn't be penalized just because we prefer a lag-free, collision-free experience where we actually get to play the game.

"

steven0006#1294 wrote:

"

Japonbu#0742 wrote:

+1000. You nailed it.
Especially this part: "The ONLY reason people group in PoE is to benefit from the boost in loot."
Let's be honest: The Quantity/Rarity Bonus for groups is not a "Reward"; it is a Bribe.
It is GGG paying players "Compensation" to tolerate the terrible multiplayer mechanics you listed:
• Player Collision (getting stuck on friends).
• Visual Clutter (can't see anything).
• Lag/Latency spikes.
• The feeling of being useless while the carry zooms ahead.
If they removed the loot multiplier today, Group Play would die instantly.
This proves that people aren't grouping for the "Love of friendship"; they are grouping because the math forces them to.
Solo players shouldn't be penalized just because we prefer a lag-free, collision-free experience where we actually get to play the game.

Much love 100% agree but we all know GGG is not listening. We want the game to be fun not a job. Once it is fun it will be a job for us to put it down. I would buy so many supporter packs if I was addicted because I was able to do stuff in the game that wasn't invalidated by the elitist toxic groups that abuse the game and exploit every season.

"

Japonbu#0742 wrote:

"

Valsacar#0268 wrote:

So, we have our answer. Inefficient.

"

Japonbu#0742 wrote:

In Adventure Mode / Maps, the loop is: Enter Map -> Kill Everything -> Next Map. The "Action Density" is exponentially higher. That is the only metric that matters to me.

You might prefer a bullet hell game then, instead of a... ROLE PLAYING GAME.

So, let me get this straight.
You are calling me "Inefficient" because I am spending time fighting monsters instead of ignoring them to run past?
Think about what you just admitted:
In the current Campaign design, actually interacting with the combat (the core of the game) is considered "Inefficient."
According to your logic, the "Correct" way to play is to treat the game like a Running Simulator and skip the content.
That is exactly my point! A game shouldn't punish you for playing it. If "Efficiency" requires me to stop having fun and start speed-running past mobs, then the design is flawed.
And regarding your comment: "You might prefer a bullet hell game then, instead of a ROLE PLAYING GAME."
You seem to have forgotten the "A" in ARPG.
This is an Action Role Playing Game.
• In a CRPG (like Baldur's Gate): Role-playing involves immersion, scenery, and slow pacing.
• In an ARPG (like PoE): My "Role" is to be a Godslayer. It is about Power, Math, and Combat.
When I play PoE, I am role-playing a powerful exile destroying nightmares, not a courier delivering quest items across empty fields.
Walking through a massive, empty zone with dead-ends and backtracking (which happens constantly in PoE 2 layouts) isn't "Good Role Playing." It is just Downtime.
Don't confuse Tedium with Immersion.
I don't want a "Bullet Hell"; I just want the "Action" part of the genre to be respected.

"

Japonbu#0742 wrote:

The "Fetch Quest" Loop: In the Campaign, the loop is often: Enter Zone -> Find Quest Item -> Portal to Town -> Talk to NPC -> Portal Back -> Walk to Next Zone Entrance. That entire sequence involves multiple load screens and walking segments with zero combat density.

"

avastcosmicarena#5899 wrote:

I think the temple is the worst offender. I play the game A LOT, and I mean A LOT, for someone who is an adult with a full-time salaried job as a programmer, and I find the temple is just exhausting. It takes way too fucking long to setup. It's got me way more burnt out on the league way faster than I have been in previous leagues, because I honestly just don't feel like dedicating so much time to setup a temple, but it almost feels mandatory because of how bad the balance is and how messed up the economy is. IMO, the temple is WAY too aimed at streamers and no-lifers. Gathering enough crystals + dealing with the sometimes very painful RNG while trying to setup your rooms just takes way, way too long.

"

steven0006#1294 wrote:

Much love 100% agree but we all know GGG is not listening. We want the game to be fun not a job. Once it is fun it will be a job for us to put it down. I would buy so many supporter packs if I was addicted because I was able to do stuff in the game that wasn't invalidated by the elitist toxic groups that abuse the game and exploit every season.