POE2 disrespecting our time (Post-0.4.0)

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FireMana#0911 wrote:

The game's plot length is ridiculous.

"Ridiculous" is putting it mildly. It feels like GGG forgot that in a Seasonal ARPG, the Campaign is essentially just a mandatory tutorial before the real game starts.

Making the "tutorial" last 40+ hours (and remember, we are still missing Acts 5 & 6!) is genuinely insane design. It’s an Action RPG, not a Visual Novel. We are here to blast maps and build characters, not to walk across a continent for 3 days just to unlock our passive points.

If the barrier to entry is this high every 3 months, "Alt-holism" will die, and retention will tank. Nobody wants to re-read a 500-page book every time they want to try a new character.

If they want to add an SSF+ mode or something for more casual players that's fine, but I don't want the current mode changed at all. I definitely don't want increased drops or anything. SSF is a knowledge check and not a mode to just blast through the endgame farm in the same way trade does. Never has been.

This is definitely not something I would want to change with the base SSF mode though. It's in very good shape right now and takes around 3 days to do a full clear.

If you are struggling with the content try to check out some guides or a couple creators. SSF isn't for everyone and you may have to play trade for a bit until you get a better understanding of the game, crafting, progression, etc. After a while you'll pro0b find that SSF isn't hard at all, just more of a time sink, which is nice to have.

Good luck in 0.5!

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rrogan17#2926 wrote:

If they want to add an SSF+ mode or something for more casual players that's fine, but I don't want the current mode changed at all. I definitely don't want increased drops or anything. SSF is a knowledge check and not a mode to just blast through the endgame farm in the same way trade does. Never has been.

This is definitely not something I would want to change with the base SSF mode though. It's in very good shape right now and takes around 3 days to do a full clear.

If you are struggling with the content try to check out some guides or a couple creators. SSF isn't for everyone and you may have to play trade for a bit until you get a better understanding of the game, crafting, progression, etc. After a while you'll pro0b find that SSF isn't hard at all, just more of a time sink, which is nice to have.

Good luck in 0.5!

I have to stop you right there on the "Knowledge Check" argument. That is a logical fallacy.

Knowledge tells me where an item drops. Math (RNG) decides if it drops.

No amount of "knowledge" or "watching guides" changes the drop rate in the database. I can know exactly how to craft an item, but if the Essences or Fossils don't drop after 50 hours of grinding, my knowledge is useless. Pretending that RNG is a "skill issue" is just elitist gatekeeping.

And regarding your "3 Days to Full Clear" claim: Unless you are playing 16+ hours a day and abusing the absolute top 0.1% broken meta build, that is statistically impossible for a normal human being. Balancing a game around the top 0.1% of speedrunners while telling everyone else "go play Trade" is how you kill a game mode.

We aren't asking for "easy mode." We are asking for Mathematically Viable mode for people who don't treat PoE2 as a full-time job.

40 hours full of afk and meandering, surely? I couldn't make sense of this otherwise

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Japonbu#0742 wrote:

No amount of "knowledge" or "watching guides" changes the drop rate in the database. I can know exactly how to craft an item, but if the Essences or Fossils don't drop after 50 hours of grinding, my knowledge is useless. Pretending that RNG is a "skill issue" is just elitist gatekeeping.

Maybe that's what people do wrong in SSF. Maybe you shouldn't farm for specific resource but rather play with whatever you already got. The "knowledge" part is about using limited resources for maximum gains.

Just like those people with higher education who work minimum wage jobs. Awww shucks

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Japonbu#0742 wrote:

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rrogan17#2926 wrote:

If they want to add an SSF+ mode or something for more casual players that's fine, but I don't want the current mode changed at all. I definitely don't want increased drops or anything. SSF is a knowledge check and not a mode to just blast through the endgame farm in the same way trade does. Never has been.

This is definitely not something I would want to change with the base SSF mode though. It's in very good shape right now and takes around 3 days to do a full clear.

If you are struggling with the content try to check out some guides or a couple creators. SSF isn't for everyone and you may have to play trade for a bit until you get a better understanding of the game, crafting, progression, etc. After a while you'll pro0b find that SSF isn't hard at all, just more of a time sink, which is nice to have.

Good luck in 0.5!

I have to stop you right there on the "Knowledge Check" argument. That is a logical fallacy.

Knowledge tells me where an item drops. Math (RNG) decides if it drops.

No amount of "knowledge" or "watching guides" changes the drop rate in the database. I can know exactly how to craft an item, but if the Essences or Fossils don't drop after 50 hours of grinding, my knowledge is useless. Pretending that RNG is a "skill issue" is just elitist gatekeeping.

And regarding your "3 Days to Full Clear" claim: Unless you are playing 16+ hours a day and abusing the absolute top 0.1% broken meta build, that is statistically impossible for a normal human being. Balancing a game around the top 0.1% of speedrunners while telling everyone else "go play Trade" is how you kill a game mode.

We aren't asking for "easy mode." We are asking for Mathematically Viable mode for people who don't treat PoE2 as a full-time job.

I mean you're wrong on most of the points you tried to make. I play my own builds, don't follow guides and I don't even use PoB. I can consistently full clear in SSF day 3-4 without issues. You may not be able to, but that's a skill issue more than anything. You acting pretentious and trying to tell me how I play the game is egotistical af. Don't get mad just because you don't have the knowledge required or skill to do the same, as plenty of people can.

If you want to play a mode that isn't designed for more of a time investment trade exist for that reason. It is the best mode for people who can only play a few hours a day, as you don't have to have as much knowledge of the game and can just follow a guide, which will allow to to keep up with progression.

Even Jonathan has stated how the game is designed to where around 90% of the playerbase can't complete all the content. If you are wanting a more casual experience it may be a better to choice to find another game or play trade to help get over the hurdle, but an entire game mode, that has been very successful, shouldn't be changed because a few people don't have the time.

If anything I hope they make SSF harder and more of a grind. It's already too easy as it is for anyone with time put in to learning the mechanics and crafting.

All I did was give a suggestion to add an SSF+ mode for people who may want this and you come in aggressive as hell. Now I hope they make it more of a grind if anything, as I have unlimited time to play.

Try not to personalize things so much, especially with someone who was pushing for a mode to appease people. Now I hope they never add it now though, as your attitude and the people who have been asking for this change is weird.

In the end the majority of people who play SSF agree with me and not the points you made, as this idea has been shot down for many years.

Good luck though in 0.5.

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I mean you're wrong on most of the points you tried to make. I play my own builds, don't follow guides and I don't even use PoB. I can consistently full clear in SSF day 3-4 without issues. You may not be able to, but that's a skill issue more than anything. You acting pretentious and trying to tell me how I play the game is egotistical af. Don't get mad just because you don't have the knowledge required or skill to do the same, as plenty of people can.

If you want to play a mode that isn't designed for more of a time investment trade exist for that reason. It is the best mode for people who can only play a few hours a day, as you don't have to have as much knowledge of the game and can just follow a guide, which will allow to to keep up with progression.

Even Jonathan has stated how the game is designed to where around 90% of the players base can't complete all the content. If you are wanting a more casual experience it may be a better to choice to find another game or play trade to help get over the hurdle, but an entire game mode, that has been very successful, shouldn't be changed because a few people don't have the time.

If anything I hope they make SSF harder and more of a grind. It's already too easy as it is for anyone with time put in to learning the mechanics and crafting.

All I did was give a suggestion to add an SSF+ mode for people who may want this and you come in aggressive as hell. Now I hope they make it more of a grind if anything, as I have unlimited time to play. T

Try not to personalize things so much, especially with someone who was pushing for a mode to appease people. Now I hope they never add it though

In the end the majority of people who play SSF agree with me and not the points you made, as this idea has been shot down for many years.

Good luck though in 0.5.

And there is the smoking gun: "I have unlimited time to play."

That single sentence explains our entire disagreement. You are viewing the game through the lens of someone who can sink 12-16 hours a day into a grind. Of course the drop rates feel fine to you; you are brute-forcing the RNG with sheer volume of playtime.

But here is the reality check: You are a statistical anomaly. Balancing a commercial product around players with "unlimited time" is financial suicide. The bills are paid by the 90% of players who have jobs, families, and limited schedules. If the game is tuned only for the "unlimited time" crowd, the servers will be empty in a month.

Regarding your claim of "Full clearing SSF in 3 days with no PoB and home-brew builds": If that is true, you are in the top 0.01% of players globally. You cannot tell the other 99.99% "It's a skill issue" just because they aren't gaming savants with infinite free time.

A game needs to be playable for the median player, not just the outliers. I’m happy you enjoy the grind, but your lifestyle is not the standard for game balance.

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Japonbu#0742 wrote:

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FireMana#0911 wrote:

The game's plot length is ridiculous.

"Ridiculous" is putting it mildly. It feels like GGG forgot that in a Seasonal ARPG, the Campaign is essentially just a mandatory tutorial before the real game starts.

Making the "tutorial" last 40+ hours (and remember, we are still missing Acts 5 & 6!) is genuinely insane design. It’s an Action RPG, not a Visual Novel. We are here to blast maps and build characters, not to walk across a continent for 3 days just to unlock our passive points.

If the barrier to entry is this high every 3 months, "Alt-holism" will die, and retention will tank. Nobody wants to re-read a 500-page book every time they want to try a new character.

40 Hours - say what? ))) company takes 4-5 hours, 8, if you are afk flipping and so on. skill issue

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Lynnwaisse#4198 wrote:

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Japonbu#0742 wrote:

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FireMana#0911 wrote:

The game's plot length is ridiculous.

"Ridiculous" is putting it mildly. It feels like GGG forgot that in a Seasonal ARPG, the Campaign is essentially just a mandatory tutorial before the real game starts.

Making the "tutorial" last 40+ hours (and remember, we are still missing Acts 5 & 6!) is genuinely insane design. It’s an Action RPG, not a Visual Novel. We are here to blast maps and build characters, not to walk across a continent for 3 days just to unlock our passive points.

If the barrier to entry is this high every 3 months, "Alt-holism" will die, and retention will tank. Nobody wants to re-read a 500-page book every time they want to try a new character.

40 Hours - say what? ))) company takes 4-5 hours, 8, if you are afk flipping and so on. skill issue

4-5 hours in PoE 2? Are you sure you are posting in the right forum? You might be confusing this with PoE 1.

Even the absolute top 0.1% speedrunners (people who do this professionally) were clocking 8-12 hours on their first runs during the launch. Claiming a "4-5 hour" campaign run for a regular playthrough in the current state of PoE 2 (with the current movement speed and boss HP) is functionally impossible.

Unless you have a VOD to prove you are faster than the world's best racers, stop inventing numbers to dismiss valid feedback. "Skill issue" is a lazy argument, but "lying about playtime" is just funny.