What Will Happen When the Keepers League Ends

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Storm#1911 wrote:

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Sartharion#5351 wrote:

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Senju_Hyoketsu#6098 wrote:

If the tree is nerfed and points have to be spent into the tree; it would make no sense for anyone not to invest into said mechanic during ANY league start, as in mandatory; if it can still reward anything remotely close to what it could in 3.27. Even if it is nerfed by 50%, or 75%, or 100%. It would still be better than anything else currently in the game by far.

And you people defending the tree are so funny by claiming that "you can still make profit"... It's not about profit, it's about the game's progression curve. Why should Path of Exile's progression curve all of a sudden be sped up, by A LOT ?! Why should alternative crafting methods be nullified because of one new broken mechanic ? Alternative farms be nullified because of one new broken mechanic ?

League start is the most fun and special time in POE, shortening that timeframe makes no sense, as well as shortening overall player retention (because no matter what anyone says, if you give players amazing items, if someone has less things to chase and upgrade to, they will play less).

Claiming that it's only about "profit" is so short sighted and disingenuous, makes me sick. It's about a game, that has systems in place, multiple crafting mechanics and a set progression curve that has stood the test of time and proven to be successful, oriented towards a certain demographic of players who don't want things to be handed to them on a silver platter like most other games of this generation ; all of it now getting trashed into the bin because of a new added mechanic that couldn't be more antithetical to the core essence of a loot-based ARPG (throwing insane items at players for basically nothing right after league start).

[Removed by Support]

Again, casual players are more than welcome, and we'll accept and help them; but the game shouldn't be dumbed down into a mere shell of what it once used to be in order to cater to them. And casual players shouldn't ask for it to be. I would never join another game or community and ask for it to change for my personal needs and wants, it's both pure insanity, selfishness and ignorance.

I shouldn't even have to type all this, it's common sense. The genesis tree is completely broken and awards overpowered items for almost no efforts right after league start. Couple that with the addition of Faustus... and people are decked out in the best bases, 6 links, fractures and T1 rares mere days following league start. Even with a big nerf it would still be broken, hence mandatory, hence still flooding the market with godlike items asap. The nature of the mechanic (the provisioning wombgift part of the tree) is just too strong. It's DUMB

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Your ' silver platter' argument is adorable. You talk about the progression curve as if it were a sacred religious text and not a set of numbers GGG tweaks every three months to keep the game from stagnating. It’s hilarious that you view 'friction' and 'tedium' as a personality trait. Newsflash: spending 48 hours straight farming Essences doesn't make you a genius; it just means you have a lot of free time.

You claim you’d never ask a game to change for your needs, yet here you are, throwing a tantrum and demanding the removal of a mechanic because it doesn't fit your specific definition of 'fun.' You aren't defending the game’s 'past'; you’re just a gatekeeper terrified that if the 'plebeians' get 6-links and T1 bases, [Removed by Support]

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+1


Easier access to the endgame is a good thing for everyone. There are a lot of players who don't want to struggle for hours all week just to try out the endgame or cool builds.
Plus, if they can access it more easily, they'll want to min-max even more, which is good for the endgame economy.

But now let's take your arguments, which are “League start is the most fun and special time in POE, shortening that timeframe makes no sense” and “game's progression curve.”

Let's follow your logic to its conclusion and remove TFT and all the services that go with it :
-No more act rush carry (grind your character alone)
-No more leveling carry (get to level 100 alone)
-No more boss carry (get your voidstones alone)
-No more mirror service and suppress Mirror of Kalendra (craft your items alone)
-No more gold rotas (get your gold alone)

That way, the “game's progression curve” will be natural and the same for everyone. Is that what you want? Really?

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Stan3k#1369 wrote:

You just extrapolated his argument to an extreme where it no longer makes sense. Lets take your argument to same extreme degree shall we?

Faster endgame is good for everyone -> lets just give people level 100 characters of their chosing and let them just use whatever end game items instantly so that they dont need to grind for weeks just to get to the end game. Why even bother with them having to min max anything by drops or buying things with currency, just give it to them. that way people save time and dont need to spend hours grinding. Inside of game. Made by a studio. Called GRINDING. GEAR. GAMES.

Seriously what an L take, making mid tier items more readily avaiable including day 1 printing of 6L armors, only hurts the people who dont grind for days who cant really use very end game strats even if they had character capable of it. While end game items were still extremely expensive, mid tier 6L without 3x T1 es were worth around 5-10c. You drop something extremerally rare and its worthless. It also canibalizes any other content. If you had tree in same accesibility and outputing same amout of high tier items you literally end up with half of other content dead. As mentioned many times Rog crafting/delve even essences are pointless apart from unique applications like ailment avoidance on boots.

If you dont want to grind a character for a week to get to endgame content, perhaps dont play game made by grinding gear games. Seriously, clue is in the name

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YasuharuGod#6818 wrote:

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Senju_Hyoketsu#6098 wrote:

If the tree is nerfed and points have to be spent into the tree; it would make no sense for anyone not to invest into said mechanic during ANY league start, as in mandatory; if it can still reward anything remotely close to what it could in 3.27. Even if it is nerfed by 50%, or 75%, or 100%. It would still be better than anything else currently in the game by far.

And you people defending the tree are so funny by claiming that "you can still make profit"... It's not about profit, it's about the game's progression curve. Why should Path of Exile's progression curve all of a sudden be sped up, by A LOT ?! Why should alternative crafting methods be nullified because of one new broken mechanic ? Alternative farms be nullified because of one new broken mechanic ?

League start is the most fun and special time in POE, shortening that timeframe makes no sense, as well as shortening overall player retention (because no matter what anyone says, if you give players amazing items, if someone has less things to chase and upgrade to, they will play less).

Claiming that it's only about "profit" is so short sighted and disingenuous, makes me sick. It's about a game, that has systems in place, multiple crafting mechanics and a set progression curve that has stood the test of time and proven to be successful, oriented towards a certain demographic of players who don't want things to be handed to them on a silver platter like most other games of this generation ; all of it now getting trashed into the bin because of a new added mechanic that couldn't be more antithetical to the core essence of a loot-based ARPG (throwing insane items at players for basically nothing right after league start).

[Removed by Support]

Again, casual players are more than welcome, and we'll accept and help them; but the game shouldn't be dumbed down into a mere shell of what it once used to be in order to cater to them. And casual players shouldn't ask for it to be. I would never join another game or community and ask for it to change for my personal needs and wants, it's both pure insanity, selfishness and ignorance.

I shouldn't even have to type all this, it's common sense. The genesis tree is completely broken and awards overpowered items for almost no efforts right after league start. Couple that with the addition of Faustus... and people are decked out in the best bases, 6 links, fractures and T1 rares mere days following league start. Even with a big nerf it would still be broken, hence mandatory, hence still flooding the market with godlike items asap. The nature of the mechanic (the provisioning wombgift part of the tree) is just too strong. It's DUMB

Why the Tree would be "Mandatory"? Just play the game as you always do, right? You’re framing this as a progression issue, but the examples you give consistently point to economic displacement, not systems being removed or invalidated. I get the concern about pacing and item value, but a lot of this is being dramatically overstated.

Nothing forces players to invest into the tree. PoE has always had dominant league-start strategies, and players have always been free to ignore them and play differently. The existence of a relatively strong option doesn’t delete alternatives, it simply affects their relative profitability.

What the tree actually accelerates is access to functional mid-tier gear, not endgame or chase progression. High-end crafting, min-maxing, and mirror-tier items are still intact and still require massive time, currency, and knowledge. The tree does not shower players with constant OP 6-links or 6x T1 rares, those are outliers being conveniently treated as the baseline. Most of what the tree produces is usable mid-tier gear, not god-tier items.

Claiming that alternative crafting or farming has been “nullified” is misleading, those systems still work exactly the same mechanically. What changed is that they no longer rely on artificial scarcity to maintain inflated margins. Generic rares have been losing value for years due to crafting systems, base targeting, and loot filters. What still holds value are the same things as always: good bases, good combinations, and items with clear upgrade paths.

This isn’t the game being dumbed down or the progression curve being destroyed, it’s accessibility increasing, which naturally compresses mid-game profits. That’s an economic shift, not some betrayal of PoE’s core identity.

Also, faster access to playable gear doesn’t automatically reduce player retention. For many players, it actually allows them to reach and engage with the game’s deeper systems instead of burning out and quitting early.

To be honest, it seems that the real concern here on this thread isn’t that the game has fewer things to chase, it’s that fewer people can gatekeep early and mid-game progression as a profit niche. You can see this clearly throughout this thread with takes like “Rog is useless now, I can’t make a few Divs anymore because some dads are clicking a slot machine and getting godly 6-link armours.”

That’s not a balance argument, it’s exaggeration mixed with elitism.

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Storm#1911 wrote:

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Stan3k#1369 wrote:

You just extrapolated his argument to an extreme where it no longer makes sense. Lets take your argument to same extreme degree shall we?

Faster endgame is good for everyone -> lets just give people level 100 characters of their chosing and let them just use whatever end game items instantly so that they dont need to grind for weeks just to get to the end game. Why even bother with them having to min max anything by drops or buying things with currency, just give it to them. that way people save time and dont need to spend hours grinding. Inside of game. Made by a studio. Called GRINDING. GEAR. GAMES.

Seriously what an L take, making mid tier items more readily avaiable including day 1 printing of 6L armors, only hurts the people who dont grind for days who cant really use very end game strats even if they had character capable of it. While end game items were still extremely expensive, mid tier 6L without 3x T1 es were worth around 5-10c. You drop something extremerally rare and its worthless. It also canibalizes any other content. If you had tree in same accesibility and outputing same amout of high tier items you literally end up with half of other content dead. As mentioned many times Rog crafting/delve even essences are pointless apart from unique applications like ailment avoidance on boots.

If you dont want to grind a character for a week to get to endgame content, perhaps dont play game made by grinding gear games. Seriously, clue is in the name

My argument wasn't nonsense; it's part of the tools of debate.

What I was highlighting was that by extrapolating his reasoning, we were heading towards the SSF, which remains a viable option.

However, your argument is dishonest, since it suggests the death of the game, which wasn't the conclusion of my argument.

With all due respect, it's you who's being nonsensical here.

And personally, yeah, I'd like to start at level 100 on a T16 map; it's a pain, all the grinding for me. But it's the game, I accept it, and I'm not trying to change things to force others to play according to my vision. Everyone plays as they want. But stop trying to force others to play according to your perspective. We can continue the debate if you want.

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Storm#1911 wrote:

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Stan3k#1369 wrote:

You just extrapolated his argument to an extreme where it no longer makes sense. Lets take your argument to same extreme degree shall we?

Faster endgame is good for everyone -> lets just give people level 100 characters of their chosing and let them just use whatever end game items instantly so that they dont need to grind for weeks just to get to the end game. Why even bother with them having to min max anything by drops or buying things with currency, just give it to them. that way people save time and dont need to spend hours grinding. Inside of game. Made by a studio. Called GRINDING. GEAR. GAMES.

Seriously what an L take, making mid tier items more readily avaiable including day 1 printing of 6L armors, only hurts the people who dont grind for days who cant really use very end game strats even if they had character capable of it. While end game items were still extremely expensive, mid tier 6L without 3x T1 es were worth around 5-10c. You drop something extremerally rare and its worthless. It also canibalizes any other content. If you had tree in same accesibility and outputing same amout of high tier items you literally end up with half of other content dead. As mentioned many times Rog crafting/delve even essences are pointless apart from unique applications like ailment avoidance on boots.

If you dont want to grind a character for a week to get to endgame content, perhaps dont play game made by grinding gear games. Seriously, clue is in the name

My argument wasn't nonsense; it's part of the tools of debate.

What I was highlighting was that by extrapolating his reasoning, we were heading towards the SSF, which remains a viable option.

However, your argument is dishonest, since it suggests the death of the game, which wasn't the conclusion of my argument.

With all due respect, it's you who's being nonsensical here.

And personally, yeah, I'd like to start at level 100 on a T16 map; it's a pain, all the grinding for me. But it's the game, I accept it, and I'm not trying to change things to force others to play according to my vision. Everyone plays as they want. But stop trying to force others to play according to your perspective. We can continue the debate if you want.

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Stan3k#1369 wrote:

But skipping the harsh tone, 95% of people in this tread voice strong dislike, youre the one with different vision.

GGG stated that its all about small steps and upgrades being within the grasp at every step is what they want. and i agree, once you start having to farm hundreds of divs and it takes you days for minimal upgrades game gets boring. Youre just trying to speed up the boring stage of the game. This game is about having challanges and overcomming them. Faster gear curve removes 90% of any friction or struggle, speeds up you getting to 'no sensible upgrade in sight' stage of the game. Increasing burnout and amount of people dropping off. If grinding isnt your thing just dont play a grindy game.

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Storm#1911 wrote:

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Stan3k#1369 wrote:

But skipping the harsh tone, 95% of people in this tread voice strong dislike, youre the one with different vision.

GGG stated that its all about small steps and upgrades being within the grasp at every step is what they want. and i agree, once you start having to farm hundreds of divs and it takes you days for minimal upgrades game gets boring. Youre just trying to speed up the boring stage of the game. This game is about having challanges and overcomming them. Faster gear curve removes 90% of any friction or struggle, speeds up you getting to 'no sensible upgrade in sight' stage of the game. Increasing burnout and amount of people dropping off. If grinding isnt your thing just dont play a grindy game.

I understand your vision, which is to grind from 0 to Hero. And that other players who like that disagree with this mechanic.
But let's not forget that the majority of people who express themselves are the dissatisfied ones, and that those who are satisfied have much less need to come and express themselves here.

Let's clarify one thing: I never said that I don't like grinding/farming in general. I don't like grinding from 0 to tier 16 red map.
Once I reach t16 and above, I really enjoy grinding and the endgame.

Let me quickly share my experience with you so you can better understand what I mean:
I discovered POE1 two years ago. I gave up on the game after a week because I found it too difficult, not enjoyable to progress in, and I didn't understand what was happening to me (repeated deaths, lack of DPS, etc.).
In short, I gave up.
I rediscovered it in 3.27 with Keepers, and this time I stuck with it longer, did better, and was able to reach the endgame (t16 and above) thanks to easier access to mid-tier gear.
And that's when I discovered a whole new game! I had a lot of fun farming my currencies and maxing out my character!
I must have maxed out 5-6 characters in that league and farmed close to 10 mirrors. I even spent over $100 in the game because I was having so much fun, even though I had refused to spend a single dollar on a game before (I only played free games). I also contributed significantly to the game's economy by farming/buying/crafting.

None of this would have happened without Keepers and the tree.
It's beneficial for everyone, and for veteran players like you, it doesn't really change anything that the mid-game is easier, it's just a few hours of play for you over 4 months of league.
On the contrary, it brings you new active players in the endgame. What's the problem? I don't understand.

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Storm#1911 wrote:

it's just a few hours of play

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Stan3k#1369 wrote:

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Storm#1911 wrote:

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Stan3k#1369 wrote:

But skipping the harsh tone, 95% of people in this tread voice strong dislike, youre the one with different vision.

GGG stated that its all about small steps and upgrades being within the grasp at every step is what they want. and i agree, once you start having to farm hundreds of divs and it takes you days for minimal upgrades game gets boring. Youre just trying to speed up the boring stage of the game. This game is about having challanges and overcomming them. Faster gear curve removes 90% of any friction or struggle, speeds up you getting to 'no sensible upgrade in sight' stage of the game. Increasing burnout and amount of people dropping off. If grinding isnt your thing just dont play a grindy game.

I understand your vision, which is to grind from 0 to Hero. And that other players who like that disagree with this mechanic.
But let's not forget that the majority of people who express themselves are the dissatisfied ones, and that those who are satisfied have much less need to come and express themselves here.

Let's clarify one thing: I never said that I don't like grinding/farming in general. I don't like grinding from 0 to tier 16 red map.
Once I reach t16 and above, I really enjoy grinding and the endgame.

Let me quickly share my experience with you so you can better understand what I mean:
I discovered POE1 two years ago. I gave up on the game after a week because I found it too difficult, not enjoyable to progress in, and I didn't understand what was happening to me (repeated deaths, lack of DPS, etc.).
In short, I gave up.
I rediscovered it in 3.27 with Keepers, and this time I stuck with it longer, did better, and was able to reach the endgame (t16 and above) thanks to easier access to mid-tier gear.
And that's when I discovered a whole new game! I had a lot of fun farming my currencies and maxing out my character!
I must have maxed out 5-6 characters in that league and farmed close to 10 mirrors. I even spent over $100 in the game because I was having so much fun, even though I had refused to spend a single dollar on a game before (I only played free games). I also contributed significantly to the game's economy by farming/buying/crafting.

None of this would have happened without Keepers and the tree.
It's beneficial for everyone, and for veteran players like you, it doesn't really change anything that the mid-game is easier, it's just a few hours of play for you over 4 months of league.
On the contrary, it brings you new active players in the endgame. What's the problem? I don't understand.

I totally see your point, first time i picked up poe i didnt finish act 1.

I think if you do a little research and prep before next season you will realize 0-t16 is actually fairly easy regardless, what tree does is destroys mid tier economy, any drops outside of pure currency or t1-t0 uniques becomes irrelevant. Crafting outside of end game gear is pointless, failed end game crafts are unselable. I get you had 0 experience prior to keepers and maybe thats why your perspective is skewed, but this game used to reward knowlege and skill including crafting. Tree in current form removed like 90% of it just by itself. farming anything outside of raw currency and niche things or boss uniques is pointless.

I will also dm you some of the things im plannin on doing in case you struggle if tree gets removed or heavily nerfed.

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Senju_Hyoketsu#6098 wrote:

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Storm#1911 wrote:

it's just a few hours of play

No it's not just a few hours, as many people have highlighted throughout this thread.

The fact that you then willingly choose to reduce it to that, proves there's no point in debating.

That being said, I'm genuinely happy for you that you enjoy the game and its current "new" direction.
I'm gonna wait for patch notes, and if unsatisfactory (should provisioning gifts not be nerfed into oblivion) I will stop playing this game after 13 years as it kills the fun of league start for me.

GL