Read here to help keep POE free of JSP using trash-->

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Faerwin wrote:

If you can't make a point without insulting someone else then you don't really had a point to start with.

You can disagree with someone without insulting their existence you know...


And I haven't heard of jsp ruining any game. D2 was solely ruined by bots, hacks and enigma.

Oh I'm not disagreeing with the fact that you can disagree without insulting them. It doesn't, however, diminish the content of the argument if I do. The only people who care about insults, personal or general, in the context of arguments are people with weak arguments to begin with.

You are right d2jsp is not the sole owner of the wreckage of Diablo II. It is however a major contributor. It's history is not exempt and neither are its supporters. I'm dubious over this "new chapter" in d2jsp. Not to mention its permeating ability to convert primary markets in consideration to what happened in D2.

I don't know if you were there when d2jsp was created, it was one of the proponents of botting and excessive hacking. It used that pedestal to start a grey market. Forum gold is cash dressed up (i.e bitcoins). This enables power4cash.

Do not lie to yourself that d2jsp isn't in this for profit. There is no measurable benefit of having it either.

My opinion is that it can completely subvert the planned economy if it doesn't pan out as GGG plans. Game economies stay healthiest when self regulated primarily. Not by a secondary market which is beyond the reproach of the developers. The intended currency of the game is IN the game, not outside of it.

Anyone proposing d2jsp is going to be positive about it and is only speaking on behalf of their nice pouch of forum gold, which immediately perches them at an advantage, allowing them to control prices better because of experience.

I'm sure GGG, which has shown itself to be a great fan of this genre knows all too well about the d2jsp and it's "positive" effects. I'll say I'm even confident that I know they already have a set opinion on it. I cannot say which, however, but I do hope it's the reasonable one.

Apparently this has become a troll thread for for our friend corneredreality. He has insulted GGG, himself, and everyone on this forum. Tried to cause an argument about things that are not even pertaining to this post. Troll

Anyways... Can we get a mod to elaborate on this please? I don't think D2JSP is wrong. Do the mods think it is unethical to use this site for trading in POE? If so I just tell me and I won't use D2JSP for trading in POE. I will enjoy this game the same either way....


And I'm going to edit this post for one more thing. Please stop saying that D2JSP will ruin the economy in this game. People have been doing things outside of games for a long time to help themselves in games. People have also been buying, selling, and trading real money and items for virtual things for a very long time. Even when talking about EVE online, the game with the most complex economy that is entirely player controlled, we don't see its economy ruined by outside game trades. Why? Because in game trading is always the preferable route for the majority of players. That being said, even though i'm a D2JSP user, I still prefer to trade in game for other items or currencies. I am using the FG as a placeholder when I can't be at the computer 24/7 to advertise my wares. I wouldn't use D2JSP for this game period, if it had a trading mechanic where I could post an item as an advertisement for X amount of orbs. Someone just accepts the trade and I receive the items in a delivery stash window and move it to my stash when I log in. It could even be expanded on by asking for preferred stats on WTB orders with filters that can automatically check the item and compare it to what your selected filter. Anyways im done with this thread

The fact is, in all honesty, you can't stop what the people on d2jsp are doing. Flat out, you can't stop it. The best thing you can do is develop the game in such a way that d2jsp doesn't effect it as much(not that I think it has or will). D2jsp thrives, not because people buy forum gold for money, but because it's an easy way to trade items with people in games where it may be an issue. Sure, I'll admit that I don't enjoy the fact that people can buy into FG and get good gear, but I'll also admit that it's entirely possible for me to come into PoE as a level 1, and get every orb drop he bought on the beach of act 1 normal. If you want D2jsp to stop, or become less active, the game itself needs to provide a better way for the economy to support itself, because right now it's a guessing game, and it's hard to find people to buy things(as compared to D2jsp).

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tokiih wrote:

If someone gets lucky that's just part of the game. The same kinda goes for gifts. If you're lucky to have generous friends then you can indeed speed through the game faster than someone who is not as lucky. Boosting in one form or another is inevitable no matter how well the game is designed.

So why is it more or less ok to be lucky with friends but not ok to be lucky with friends you found on another website?

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caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaps wrote:

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tokiih wrote:

If someone gets lucky that's just part of the game. The same kinda goes for gifts. If you're lucky to have generous friends then you can indeed speed through the game faster than someone who is not as lucky. Boosting in one form or another is inevitable no matter how well the game is designed.

So why is it more or less ok to be lucky with friends but not ok to be lucky with friends you found on another website?

You're right, the source is not important and I didn't mean to encourage boosting/powerleveling in any form.

I love this forum, and it's omnipotent community.

So I'm building koi pond in my backyard and ask some people to help fill it up. The pH balanced water I need them to use is hard to find and obtaining it requires going through a specific, grindy process. Since its my pond, I don't mind the process- I want the best for my koi.

The other people I asked to help fill the pond view the pH balance as merely a suggestion and instead find quicker, easier methods to fill it up.

One guy grabs some jugs of water he had stored for hurricane preparation six years ago. Might as well get rid of them since they no longer taste good.

Another guy fills up buckets with tap water. It's coming out of his wallet, but is cheap and much easier to him than the grinding process to acquire pH balanced water.

The koi all died. In their place was a species of Chinese bot fish- although I have no idea where they came from. All I introduced to the pond was koi. I guess water from different sources is not the same as the pH balanced water the koi needed to survive (seems to favor the new inhabitant).

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Lo4f wrote:

So I'm building koi pond in my backyard and ask some people to help fill it up. The pH balanced water I need them to use is hard to find and obtaining it requires going through a specific, grindy process. Since its my pond, I don't mind the process- I want the best for my koi.

The other people I asked to help fill the pond view the pH balance as merely a suggestion and instead find quicker, easier methods to fill it up.

One guy grabs some jugs of water he had stored for hurricane preparation six years ago. Might as well get rid of them since they no longer taste good.

Another guy fills up buckets with tap water. It's coming out of his wallet, but is cheap and much easier to him than the grinding process to acquire pH balanced water.

The koi all died. In their place was a species of Chinese bot fish- although I have no idea where they came from. All I introduced to the pond was koi. I guess water from different sources is not the same as the pH balanced water the koi needed to survive (seems to favor the new inhabitant).

I'm really sorry, but this analogy does nothing to help this topic one way or another. I'm sorry you wasted your time typing it out, but it pisses me off when people try to morph dumb analogies in a debate. They are only useful when people don't understand both sides. Guess what? We understand both sides.

I'm going to reiterate Sephrik's point. You can all huff and puff this is going to do nothing to stop JSP from getting involved if they want to. And guess what? Forming a 'blacklist' of known users that you can all circle jerk and harass online isn't going to change anything, except their view of your maturity.

I've seen some good straw men on farmer fields in my time, but I think of all the straw men I've seen, the koi pond analogy is the most hilarious one.

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Nick_Thomas wrote:

I'm really sorry, but this analogy does nothing to help this topic one way or another. I'm sorry you wasted your time typing it out, but it pisses me off when people try to morph dumb analogies in a debate. They are only useful when people don't understand both sides. Guess what? We understand both sides.

I'm going to reiterate Sephrik's point. You can all huff and puff this is going to do nothing to stop JSP from getting involved if they want to. And guess what? Forming a 'blacklist' of known users that you can all circle jerk and harass online isn't going to change anything, except their view of your maturity.

So a long time ago, there was this village. People traded their goods with eachother without any form of currency and people were happy. One day, a talking bear came out of the woods. He tried to convince the villagers to use his honey-coins for trading. The people quickly realized that bears don't talk, so they got scared and threw rocks at him until he left.

The year after that, the children of the village started disappearing out of their beds. Once a week, one of the children would disappear, and when the parents checked their bedrooms all they would find was a pillow soaked in honey.

Believing the bear was responsible, the villagers hunted the woods until one day they found the bear, and they dragged him back to the village. The bear claimed he was innocent and begged for his life, but the villagers didn't listen and burned him at the village square.

Moral of the story: If you're gonna use some form of currency, don't use honey, because it's sticky.