I might quit your game due to exp lose.

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

How about a death counter and a ladder for lowest counter at level 100, and maybe some MTX rewards attached to it. Would it be a better chase than just reaching level 100 ?

Maybe? I guess my point is there are creative solutions out there. Some would require extremely long-sighted precise tweaking of things like XP curves and bonuses, but they're not impossible.

Losing XP just feels BAD. Human psychology-wise, it feels much more tolerable to lose out on a reward than to have something taken away from you.

"

b_ko#7756 wrote:

You won't feel satisfied without xp loss either, nor with level 100;

Except they're saying the opposite. why can't poe people seem to grasp +100 is a reasonable goal to end their character. The "play my way or don't play" is boring and has bled from the devs to the players

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

2. Again more of the same, I never said that the reason it was there was "its there because its there". Please provide any content to where Im saying this, again your just being dishonest and making up shit. I only said that they have a reason for implementing it and not removing it. Then you tell me that im wrong and that its only my opinion, and now your conceding that there is infact a reason you just dont know what it is? So I guess that means I wasnt wrong then?

Honestly just not even worth discussing with people like you.
Anyone who disagrees with you is just "antagonizing" and your just using language like: "you litterally said this" and then say something that you know is different and then change your own stance to whatever suits the arugment best. Thats why you can quote people on forums btw, so when people like you use these tricks its easy to spot when your being dishonest and falsely presenting what others typed.

You said "No, obviously they had a reason to implement it, and they had a reason to not remove it, and the reason is the same as why they implemented it in poe2.
You can think its a bad reason if you want, but its still a reason and not just my opinion. "

I read "there's a reason because it's there". How else should have i interpret it ?

Im sorry I was wrong, this is actually going to be my last reply tho, just had to point out the obvious dishonesty in your response here. Which is precisely what I explained you were doing.

Instead of actually quoting me (which would show you were wrong) you type:
"You said "no, obviously they had a reason to implement it, and they had a reason to not remove it, and the reason is the same as why they implemented it in poe2."."

First off I dont see where I typed anything remotely close to "its there becuase its there". Im merely stating that they have a reason for implementing it, keeping it and then implementing it in their new game. But the more important part is that you are again taking a different reply of mine out of context. My reply that you actually replied to was this:

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

There are good reasons why having different leagues for this would be a bad idea, which is the same reason why it wasnt implemented in poe1. I would explain but I know for certain it would be a waste of time.

And here again, I cant possibly see anywhere where I type or even elude to that "its there because its there".
The statement "its there because its there" wouldnt even make any sense if you actually read the reply? Im talking about the reason why something IS NOT there.

Also you can see that those two replies are talking about two different things, which is I guess why you took a different reply to try and sneak in to make your argument.
You try to twist what I say to mean something else, I call you out on it, you see you were wrong, you take a different reply that sounds slightly different and then try to play it off as "I misunderstood". Even tho whichever one you were referring to what you "quoted" me as is obviously not even remotely close to anything I said, but I guess when you have no actual facts or logic to present you have to make up something.

Yet another perfect example of your dishonest way of discussing, and why I wont waste any more time on you. You cant argue with people who are making up their own realities.

I think the biggest issue with ggg is:

They make mobs and mods on these mobs, that if you get bad RNG, you can easily be killed in a sec. You don;t even have time to process.

On top of this, they take 10% of the player xp, and remove the map don't matter how juice it is.

When you have both of these system together, the player does not have fun.

If you have one of these, but the other is fair, player can have fun.

------------------------------------------------
Examples:

1. Die, lose 10% exp and investment, but you were not stun locked or one shotted. Fine, lest git gud.

2. Get one shotted or stun locked, but did not lose XP or your investment. Fine, lest git gud.

3. Die, lose everything + 10%xp, and was one shotted or stun locked. Just bs.

GGG is punishing you from every side, and not leaving space to breath. That's masochism, not fun challenge.

"

vittorcsj#7475 wrote:

I think the biggest issue with ggg is:

They make mobs and mods on these mobs, that if you get bad RNG, you can easily be killed in a sec. You don;t even have time to process.

On top of this, they take 10% of the player xp, and remove the map don't matter how juice it is.

When you have both of these system together, the player does not have fun.

If you have one of these, but the other is fair, player can have fun.

------------------------------------------------
Examples:

1. Die, lose 10% exp and investment, but you were not stun locked or one shotted. Fine, lest git gud.

2. Get one shotted or stun locked, but did not lose XP or your investment. Fine, lest git gud.

3. Die, lose everything + 10%xp, and was one shotted or stun locked. Just bs.

GGG is punishing you from every side, and not leaving space to breath. That's masochism, not fun challenge.

Appreciate you extensively outlining how I'm allowed to have fun. Thanks.

bye bye

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

2. Again more of the same, I never said that the reason it was there was "its there because its there". Please provide any content to where Im saying this, again your just being dishonest and making up shit. I only said that they have a reason for implementing it and not removing it. Then you tell me that im wrong and that its only my opinion, and now your conceding that there is infact a reason you just dont know what it is? So I guess that means I wasnt wrong then?

Honestly just not even worth discussing with people like you.
Anyone who disagrees with you is just "antagonizing" and your just using language like: "you litterally said this" and then say something that you know is different and then change your own stance to whatever suits the arugment best. Thats why you can quote people on forums btw, so when people like you use these tricks its easy to spot when your being dishonest and falsely presenting what others typed.

You said "No, obviously they had a reason to implement it, and they had a reason to not remove it, and the reason is the same as why they implemented it in poe2.
You can think its a bad reason if you want, but its still a reason and not just my opinion. "

I read "there's a reason because it's there". How else should have i interpret it ?

Im sorry I was wrong, this is actually going to be my last reply tho, just had to point out the obvious dishonesty in your response here. Which is precisely what I explained you were doing.

Instead of actually quoting me (which would show you were wrong) you type:
"You said "no, obviously they had a reason to implement it, and they had a reason to not remove it, and the reason is the same as why they implemented it in poe2."."

First off I dont see where I typed anything remotely close to "its there becuase its there". Im merely stating that they have a reason for implementing it, keeping it and then implementing it in their new game. But the more important part is that you are again taking a different reply of mine out of context. My reply that you actually replied to was this:

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

There are good reasons why having different leagues for this would be a bad idea, which is the same reason why it wasnt implemented in poe1. I would explain but I know for certain it would be a waste of time.

And here again, I cant possibly see anywhere where I type or even elude to that "its there because its there".
The statement "its there because its there" wouldnt even make any sense if you actually read the reply? Im talking about the reason why something IS NOT there.

Also you can see that those two replies are talking about two different things, which is I guess why you took a different reply to try and sneak in to make your argument.
You try to twist what I say to mean something else, I call you out on it, you see you were wrong, you take a different reply that sounds slightly different and then try to play it off as "I misunderstood". Even tho whichever one you were referring to what you "quoted" me as is obviously not even remotely close to anything I said, but I guess when you have no actual facts or logic to present you have to make up something.

Yet another perfect example of your dishonest way of discussing, and why I wont waste any more time on you. You cant argue with people who are making up their own realities.

This is exactly the type of hollow debate i was refering. You're just talking about levels of meaning in your semantics, and trying to find levels in mine, like it is some chessmaster joust.
I really don't care, you are wasting your time.
Don't tell people how to play and don't mock their feedback because it goes against how you feel the game should be. It's not that complicated, it's just decency.

"

azaxy970#4511 wrote:

got lvl 90 ranger and lvl 87 witch, not gonna lie, i cant even count how many times i died and lost progress in ur game, i honestly despise the fact that u lose 10% exp per death, exp lose should be reduced to 3%-5% not freaking 10%!!!! that is way overkill! and im fed up with doing the same things over and over just to die and to repeat. i rather play an MMORPG instead. i wasted a lot of money in ur game as well but the campaign was fun, sadly the endgame exp lose is honestly bad idea since u play for nothing, what the hell do u gain if u die? u play to lose progress, many of my friends quit the game as well because of the exp lose, this is awful.

first off its LOSS, second off the way to fix this isssue is not die aka git gud!

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

If you come to the feedback forum to invalidate somebody's experience and feedback and start hollow debates you shouldn't be surprised to be considered antagonizing. Once again make a post of your feedback, i'll gladly say "thank you for your feedback, although i disagree" and be done with it. If you want to debate game mechanics and philosophy this could be easily done in general forum. Feedback is ultimately suggestions, suggestions to change or suggestions to stay the same. You like it, or you don't. ther's no telling people that what they like is wrong and to like something else instead.

No one is invalidating anyone's experience. Preferences aren't quantifiable, nor identical among the entire playerbase. So if anything, the person you were telling to make other threads was, at worst, providing a guide - a workaround, if you will - on how to tackle the game's unpleasant mechanic and at best, giving suggestions on how to look at the entire PoE end-game experience. Planing for and tryharding too hard to reach level 100 may be a frustrating experience even for people who've made it there and are trained with the harsh punishment the game has to offer.

There's this concept, you see, of bouncing ideas of each other. You might come in all set to burn the world up and end up deciding that using lamps is a much better way of actually lighting up the place.

Someone else did come with a suggestion that makes a lot of sense, on this thread - imagine that! - to tackle the xp penalty. THat is, increasing the rewards for not dying instead of punishing player for failing to not die.

Josh Hayes also suggested, for example, to devalue the rewards for killing a map boss with each failed attempt. Throw yourself at the problem 20 times in a row before succeeding and come out of it with 1 gold coin and 1 scroll of wisdom, instead of having to grind dozens of hours more before having a chance to reattempt it. Helps with learning mechanics and makes - especially when bosses can bug, using 2 1-shot overlapping attacks on you.

So, yeah. Again, no one's telling one anyone else that the way they like their coffee is wrong. But sadly, we got used to seeing every counterargument as a war declaration over the last decade or so.

As for having separate leagues with and without death penalty... hmm... what if I will ask for a separate league with no trade, better drops to compensate and the ability to use the guild stash? Not everyone likes or wants that, so can't force a playstyle on everyone, right? Give me my own league. Each and everyone of us might want something from the game that neither the devs nor the rest of the players want implemented in the main game. So then we'll end up with gazillion leagues in which we all play almost alone. Why?! Because we can't tolerate the world not spinning the way we want it to and we need our safe space where it does...

"

deadamaranth#4371 wrote:

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

How about a death counter and a ladder for lowest counter at level 100, and maybe some MTX rewards attached to it. Would it be a better chase than just reaching level 100 ?

Maybe? I guess my point is there are creative solutions out there. Some would require extremely long-sighted precise tweaking of things like XP curves and bonuses, but they're not impossible.

Losing XP just feels BAD. Human psychology-wise, it feels much more tolerable to lose out on a reward than to have something taken away from you.

Yes, but consequences are supposed to feel bad. Without the down, the high doesn't feel as good.

I'd also have to disagree that it feels better to lose out on a reward than have something taken away. People are bitching about both of those things right now. If you can complete a map in 1 go you get bonus content and drops, but if you fail you lose those bonuses. People bitch non-stop (almost as much as xp loss) about that.

If you die before you pick up loot (lose out on a reward) people whine about how it feels bad.

Most of the things people are complaining about are in fact losing rewards, not having anything taken away from you. The ONLY thing GGG takes away from you on death is xp. Nothing else is taken. You lose out on the rewards of doing it on the first try, you lose out on any rewards you hadn't yet claimed. You already spent the entry token (waystone) so you weren't getting that back either way.

Humans just don't like to lose, it doesn't matter if you are losing a reward or having something taken away from you.