Is the problem Jonathan?

My 1. Problem is the RNG progression. Even if I know how to look for citadels it is still random while in PoE 1 I know how many runs before I can do my next Eeater/exarch/10way. There are also reliable ways to farm out the needed Elder/shaper guardians maps needed for the voidstone while in PoE2 the atlas progression boils down to : find another nexus.

2. Yes early access yada yada but there are no guaranteed profit per map mechanics like Harvest. You can only grind and hope for something good to drop.

3. no drops at all during progression. If unlucky you end up like me where my Lich ended up being borderline unplayable when reaching maps. Nothing from shops, crafting failed, no exalts to buy stuff. (In 0.1 there was at least the loot beetle to fall back to if needed)

4. Citadels are ass. Oh come on the big endgame maps leading up to the pinnacle boss are just the act bosses?

5. Everything is just slow and ass because we don't have any movement speed or travelling skills. This compared with gigantic maps just feels off.

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Th1sGuy255255#8969 wrote:

Diversity dosent matter. What most people are upset about at the moment is if you could imagine diablo 2 lord of destruction was announced and instead they made diablo 3 or bloodmoon for morrowind and instead made skyrim. So much content and depth cut for innovation no one wanted or asked for.

So essentialy, once proven wrong you moved the goalpost to what it really is about to you PoE1 diehards... at least be genuine from the start and don't pretend it's about anything else.

If you want your PoE 1.5 to come into existence, it will never be by trying to sabotage PoE2. The more you try to sabotage PoE2 the worst it will get for PoE1 as well. Aside from their own logistical fuck-ups.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

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The claims were never about "having less build diversity then PoE1". Of course PoE2 has less diversity compared to PoE1.. DUH.

Ok, so... why has PoE2 obviously less build diversity compared to PoE1?

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I ask you guys yet again, what have YOU tried this patch to build yourselves? Have you actually tried anything?

I mean, in 0.1 alone I had in end game an Infernalist, a Blood Mage, a Deadeye, a Pathfinder, a Warbinger, a Gemling, an Invoker, a Stormweaver and multiple other ones in early maps, all with multiple self-made builds, so yeah... I am someone who tests a lot.
This patch? I went for an Amazon because Ritualist was a buggy mess and lost interest pretty early, and a Lich where I tried multiple minion builds and played Essence Drain.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

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Th1sGuy255255#8969 wrote:

Diversity dosent matter. What most people are upset about at the moment is if you could imagine diablo 2 lord of destruction was announced and instead they made diablo 3 or bloodmoon for morrowind and instead made skyrim. So much content and depth cut for innovation no one wanted or asked for.

So essentialy, once proven wrong you moved the goalpost to what it really is about to you PoE1 diehards... at least be genuine from the start and don't pretend it's about anything else.

If you want your PoE 1.5 to come into existence, it will never be by trying to sabotage PoE2. The more you try to sabotage PoE2 the worst it will get for PoE1 as well. Aside from their own logistical fuck-ups.

Read through it mate. I never moved any goal post like I mentioned before you're too worked up. I don't know how to quote stuff like you guys do but the point stands. The game is currently at 1/7th of its playerbase on steam and thats not got much to do with streamers as you seem to suggest.

Oh yeah and no one's going back to poe1. They'll go oh the next games not for me I'll play something else. As the numbers show ...

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AIDA_TriEdge#4390 wrote:

These type of threads will make GGG less and less inclided to communicate with the community like what happened with reddit and then you all will cry about there being no comunication.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Isn't nerfing a ton of skills into the ground the opposite thing if you want better build diversity over months?

FOr the sake of argument let's say there's no build diversity available. Let's not kid ourselves that if there were people wouldn't still be running with the overperforming ones. A person here and there would be interested in doing something truly unique but majority would be running with the flavour of the month.

Sure. That the masses follow the meta is kinda normal in modern gaming, but that behaviour being a thing should not excuse poor build diversity options.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

I mean, in 0.1 alone I had in end game an Infernalist, a Blood Mage, a Deadeye, a Pathfinder, a Warbinger, a Gemling, an Invoker, a Stormweaver and multiple other ones in early maps, all with multiple self-made builds, so yeah... I am someone who tests a lot.

I feel like you're someone who plays a lot. Someone who tests a lot would have a lot more patience for a build that doesn't live up to their standards. I spent the first half of my career as a game dev and we would regularly push builds to QA that wouldn't even run and they would toss them back with kindness. I remember one guy who used to knit between builds. People who test a lot have the patience of saints and don't act like the world is coming to an end because one patch is a little bit off the mark.

I think that the title of this thread is a little... combative.

I think that the POE2 dev team and the design team and Jonathan are all perfectly happy to compromise, it's just that it sounds like they've already done a lot of testing personally and they've managed to make what they think is a pretty good game if you play it a particular way.

I think that Jonathan and the other designers have what seems like very different views and perspectives to us players on what the game is, and should be, is all. Not necessarily just like... oh well it's NOT POE1, is it, it's not POE1, it's more that I can see what POE2 should be, or is trying to be, and it doesn't work right now because of a whole bunch of conflicting ideas and a lack of clarity in the game design, and it's a big problem, and it's going to continue to be a problem until it all gets untangled and many different problems find resolutions.

I dunno, it's all very complicated and I am sure the dev team is just as frustrated as we are right now. I mean, if you watch the interview, every time Zizaran brings up something that doesn't line up with their experiences in the game they're actually like clearly willing to listen, they just I think need to see the problems for themselves firsthand.

It's just a shame there's no more direct route, like honestly I feel like for me personally if I could just show them what the last 10 hours of my gameplay in POE2 has looked like they'd probably understand immediately what my problems with the game are.

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Majorita#4109 wrote:

I think that the title of this thread is a little... combative.

I think that the POE2 dev team and the design team and Jonathan are all perfectly happy to compromise, it's just that it sounds like they've already done a lot of testing personally and they've managed to make what they think is a pretty good game if you play it a particular way.

And let's not forget the examples when they actually did know better: Ziz interview and the slower mobs.

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Kerchunk#7797 wrote:

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

I mean, in 0.1 alone I had in end game an Infernalist, a Blood Mage, a Deadeye, a Pathfinder, a Warbinger, a Gemling, an Invoker, a Stormweaver and multiple other ones in early maps, all with multiple self-made builds, so yeah... I am someone who tests a lot.

I feel like you're someone who plays a lot. Someone who tests a lot would have a lot more patience for a build that doesn't live up to their standards. I spent the first half of my career as a game dev and we would regularly push builds to QA that wouldn't even run and they would toss them back with kindness. I remember one guy who used to knit between builds. People who test a lot have the patience of saints and don't act like the world is coming to an end because one patch is a little bit off the mark.

I wouldn't be so "off the mark" if GGG did not try to push so hard against the players because of "the vision".

Like, GGG wants us to test stuff in EA, right!? Then we say, for example, "There is something wrong with x" and GGG goes "Nah, there is not", and we insist "No, there is, we... tested it.", and after some back and forth we finally got them to test it and it turns out "Yes. Oops, there is something wrong with x, let me investigate.".

And keep in mind, it's not just "PoE2 EA". Ppl use it as a meme, but it's true, we "beta tested" many things in PoE1 for PoE2 and they still fucked it up.
Patience is not infinite.

I made my mind up without the input or advice of any streamers. Only ever watched 1 streamer and thats ziggyD due to his close links with Chris in the early days.

The game isnt "difficult"
But the level of difficulty that the game has been set at is completely unrewarded, tedious, frustrating and has lost any semblence of replayability

Whether you like it or not the POE franchise has been successfull based on its replayability and this league has no replayability
The campaign was brutal and too long, not rewarding and certainly hasnt encouraged me to try another build.....lack of build diversity is also made worse by lack of replayability.

Nobody wants it super easy, but in the same breath packs of white mobs being alerted from a whole screen away, charging towards you at a rate of speed that a player would be banned for, and then constantly stabbing you with a toothpick for multiple light stuns is not good game play and is not a git good scenario

The truth is that it doesnt matter what is written here on the forums
The proof of this games success over the years has always been the players returning and excited for the leagues.
POE in any form is NOT a 1 and done game

I played and hated the campaign with such a vengeance that i will not repeat it in its current form
I got to end game and absolutely loved the map and atlas changes, that was a new game for me and i liked it.

I had a wise old friend at work may years ago and he always said "If things don't change then they will stay the same"